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Mack: How do I know when it's 
time to leave a church?

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People will come and say:

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"I'm really struggling

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because this is the 
situation with our church."

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They'll give me the specifics.

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And sometimes I'll think:

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Well, now that's not a good enough reason

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to leave a church - 
what you just said there.

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Maybe the couple's highly critical.

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"Well, our pastor doesn't do evangelism

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like 'Way of the Master'."

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Well, that's not a basis 
to leave a church, you know.

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"Well, I don't like just singing hymns.

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I want them to get some 
praise music in there.

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So I'm going to go to the church

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that has great worship."

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Well, that's an immature view.

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Jesse: I don't know that you 
should leave your present church.

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Let me say this clearly.

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You should not compare the pastor

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that God has given to you

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to your favorite Internet pastor.

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So, we don't play the comparison game.

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So should they leave their local church?

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I don't know that they 
should leave their local church.

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You need to be careful 
and prayerful about that.

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Often, people are leaving 
churches over preferences,

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over byproducts of Christ and the Gospel

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and they're making those primary

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rather than secondary.

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So I don't know that they should leave

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their local church.

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Mack: The heart of it is

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if someone is in a church

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and they see that a true 
and accurate Gospel

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is being preached,

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they see true pastors

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that are caring for the people,

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and they see an atmosphere of godliness

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where the people do love the Lord

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and they can grow,

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then it's hard for me to ever affirm

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somebody leaving such a church.

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Now they may say:

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"Well, I don't agree - 
I'm an amillenialist.

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My pastor's a historic premillenialist.

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I think I'm leaving."

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I don't think that's a good enough reason.

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If the true Gospel's being preached,

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and the Word of God's being honored,

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secondary things shouldn't drive us

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away from a church.

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So that brings me to say it this way:

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I think only compromise on the essentials

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should cause us to say we 
need to leave this church;

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not accuracy on the Gospel

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or some major clear doctrinal issue.

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You see that they're 
teaching false doctrine.

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Kevin: Often when people

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are dissatisfied where they are

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or when they're looking 
for a church for a long time,

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but can't find one,

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they can latch on to 
some Internet ministries

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which can agree with them

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that what they view as false is false,

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but these can tend to be overcritical.

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And they can get into 
that overcritical spirit.

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So then they start to 
look for the new church

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and they're overcritical about 
something else that doesn't matter.

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An overcritical spirit - there's 
something wrong there.

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I'll give you an example in our own lives.

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When we were looking for a good church,

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we found a Presbyterian 
church in Blackburn.

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It was a 40 minute drive 
from where we lived

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so we'd do it twice on a Sunday

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for morning and evening service.

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Forty minutes there, forty back.

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And we didn't go in there thinking:

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this is wrong, this is wrong.

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We were just so glad to hear the preaching

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of the true Gospel there;

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be true believers,

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the singing of hymns.

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If you really are looking for 
a true church with true believers,

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you tend to be uncritical 
and overlooking things.

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Because we often find

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when people come to our church

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from other churches -

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even if they're really bad,

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they don't tend to be 
trouble causers in there.

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The trouble causers tend to just 
take the trouble somewhere else.

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So when someone comes to me

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making trouble about everywhere else,

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you tend to think they're probably

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going to be talking like that about us

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in six months time.

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So not that overcritical spirit.

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Jesse: If they are in a church

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that does not preach the Gospel -

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it doesn't mean they preach it the way

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my favorite pastor preaches it -

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but are they biblical in the proclamation

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of the death, burial, and 
resurrection of Jesus Christ?

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I think Mark Dever's done a 
great service to us in this

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in his book "Nine Marks".

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He talks about the expositional 
preaching of the Word

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which probably should be 
a whole other question.

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What does it mean to have 
expositional preaching?

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But he talks about the right view of God.

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And I think in each of 
those areas he gives,

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I think we need to be mindful

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that no church is going 
to be perfected in those.

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So if you say, well, he doesn't hold to

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a high view of God like 
this pastor or this church,

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therefore I can't be a part of it.

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Well, you have to remember,

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all the churches are growing.

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So the question is is there 
a commitment to the Word?

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To the sufficiency of Scripture?

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To look to that?

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And are they growing towards those things?

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Very often I find people struggling

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with their current church

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because they want it to go faster.

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And I mentioned this last year

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in the conference.

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Dietrich Bonhoeffer's book,

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"Fellowship Together" -

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he speaks about this notion

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of people basically wanting to find

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this perfect church.

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They want their church

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to be all that it could be.

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And I think we all want that. 
There's nothing wrong with that.

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But they begin to struggle with 
what their local church is.

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So they love the idea of 
what their church could be,

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rather than the reality of 
what the local church is.

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The inevitability there is two issues:

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Number one is this,

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you've removed yourself

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from being part of the problem,

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and you're saying it's these people

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or this pastor keeping me

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from what I could experience.

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And if I had the right pastor

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or the right people,

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then we could experience 
this idea of the church

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that I'd like to experience.

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Well, the problem with that 
is you've removed yourself

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from the equation as part of the problem,

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and the inevitability there 
is spiritual pride

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which leads to criticalness.

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The moment you begin to think like that,

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you become critical of everything

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because you're not part of the equation

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and you want the church 
to be at a certain place.

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Well, oftentimes it's the maturing 
of the church to get there.

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And people want it here. They want it now.

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They want it today

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and they're unwilling to wait.

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And so yes, a right view of Scripture,

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a right view of the Gospel,

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a right view of God,

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that practices church discipline -

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these are essential things in the church,

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but at the same time you have to allow

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some room for growth in 
all of those things as well.

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Mack: So, that couple or that individual

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may say: I see that I cannot keep myself

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under this teaching anymore.

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Whether the denial of Jesus' Lordship

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as being essential to salvation,

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or repentance as non-essential,

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or the Gospel itself - what is the Gospel.

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So when a person sees

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that essentials are compromised,

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and they actually know it 
will be spiritually detrimental

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for them to stay there,

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they're probably going to have to leave.

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But it's very important how they leave -

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not with a critical heart.

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Leave properly.

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Because it's not their job

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to disrupt the church

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or create disunity or criticism.

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They have to let Christ take care of that.

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They're job is to maintain 
their own spiritual health.

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So, when your spiritual health is at stake

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because essentials of the 
faith are being compromised,

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it's probably time to leave.