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This question comes from Eddie.

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Considering Proverbs 3:11-12 and Hebrews 12:5-8

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How can you tell if God is disciplining you as a son?

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What does the discipline of the Lord look like

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to a true Christian?

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And how can one know if he is

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incorrectly discerning his own salvation in this respect?

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You see what Eddie is assuming here?

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He's assuming that because illegitimate children,

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those who are not children of God

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aren't disciplined,

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and the true children are disciplined,

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he's assuming that if you look at your life

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and you find the discipline there,

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that's evidence that you are a child of God.

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But because lost people - those who aren't children of God,

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likewise have things happen in their life

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that cause them pain and affliction

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and difficulty and trial,

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which in some respects are very similar

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to the discipline that God brings upon His children.

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How can we tell them apart?

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That's a valid question.

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That's a good question.

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So, what do we say to that?

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Well, he references Hebrews 12.

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If you've got your Bibles there, let's read it together.

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I'm going to read about 8 verses.

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Hebrews 12. I'll start reading in verse 5.

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Because this is a good thing to know.

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Listen, we've got a lot of people here

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that believe they're Christians.

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So if this is true, that God disciplines His children,

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and He does discipline and only disciplines them,

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then if you're a child of God, you better have discipline.

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Because if you don't have discipline, you're in trouble.

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But there are lost people who come along

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and say, "Well, I have trials in my life."

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Ok, how do we tell them apart?

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How do we tell the trial of the lost man

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from the discipline of the saved man?

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Hebrews 12:5 "Have you forgotten the exhortation

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that addresses you as sons?

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My son do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord.

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Nor be weary when reproved by Him.

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For the Lord (now listen to this)

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The Lord disciplines the one He loves."

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It's a fact, folks. It's going to happen.

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"And chastises every son whom He receives."

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There's a fact. It happens.

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"It is for discipline that you have to endure.

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God is treating you as sons.

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For what son is there whom his father

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does not discipline?

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If you're left without discipline

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in which all have participated,

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(in other words, all sons)

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then you're illegitimate children and not sons.

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Besides this, we've had earthly fathers

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who disciplined us and we respected them.

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Shall we not much more be subject

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to the Father of spirits and live?

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For they disciplined us for a short time

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as it seemed best to them.

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But He disciplines us for our good,

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that we may share His holiness.

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For the moment, all discipline seems painful

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rather than pleasant, but later

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it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness

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to those who have been trained by it.

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Therefore, lift your drooping hands,

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strengthen your weak knees,

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and make straight your paths for your feet,

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so that what is lame may not be put out of joint,

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but rather be healed."

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So, how can we distinguish this discipline

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from expressions of God's wrath?

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Now think with me here.

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Romans 1 says God's wrath is revealed

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from heaven against all unrighteousness

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and ungodliness of men.

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And it's already revealed.

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God's wrath is revealed.

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And I'll tell you this,

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one of the demonstrations of God's wrath

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that we see in Romans 8 is the curse.

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People get sick. People die.

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Oftentimes from expressions of God's wrath.

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God's wrath is upon this world in the curse.

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God's wrath is upon this world in the fact that wicked men die.

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God's wrath is upon this world, how?

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Romans 1 says God gives men over

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to more and more wickedness.

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Have you ever read that?

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I'll tell you what - where men ignore God,

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God gives men over to sin.

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Ignore God?

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Unrighteousness comes in because God gives men over.

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You know one of the ways you can see the wrath of God?

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Is when people are able to just

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go deeper and deeper in sin.

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That's a judgment of God.

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That's the wrath of God.

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Now look, as people get deeper and deeper in this,

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they get sick.

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They catch diseases.

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This cursed world around them

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bears hard fruit in their lives.

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How do I tell that from God's discipline on His children?

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Well, let's think about the nature of God's discipline.

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Why does God discipline?

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What is always the issue?

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Sin.

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God never disciplines for anything but sin.

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It's always sin.

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Listen to Revelation 3:19, the Lord Jesus Christ is speaking,

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"Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline,

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so be zealous and repent."

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The only thing that needs to be repented of is what?

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Sin.

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He says, "those I love, I reprove

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and discipline, so repent."

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In other words, I discipline you

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because of sin in your life.

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So you know what?

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Every child of God gets disciplined when there's sin.

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Let me ask you this:

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Can you sin and get away with it?

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No, I'm asking you.

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Look, I'll tell you this, if you're a true child of God,

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you cannot continue in sin and get away with it.

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God will come for you.

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He'll come for you, and He'll lay that rod on your back.

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And I'll tell you what, usually God's discipline

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is right in the area of the sin.

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You know what sin a lot of times He comes after us for?

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Idolatry.

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A lot of times we begin to treasure something

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in our lives more than Christ,

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and I'll tell you what, He'll come to us right at that idol.

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Oh, a lot of times...

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But I'll tell you this, if you can sin

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and He doesn't come for you, you're in trouble.

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If you can sin and you can just keep on going on in it.

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Beware.

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Psalm 119:71 "It is good for me that I was afflicted."

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Why? "That I might learn your statutes."

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Have you guys ever heard that before?

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David says this, it was good that I was afflicted.

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You know why? When we're afflicted, we learn God's statutes.

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Have you guys ever found that out?

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Have you guys ever found that the greatest growth

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in your life doesn't come when the sun is shining?

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The birds are singing? The sky's blue.

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Everything's good. Bank account's full.

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Have you ever noticed you don't grow then, typically?

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It's when it's hard. It's when you're suffering.

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It's when the trials are upon you.

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It's when the fire is hot. That's when we grow.

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Well, Hebrews 12:11, listen to this:

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We're talking about the nature of discipline,

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and the fact is discipline revolves around sin.

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See if you can't hear it in the verses we just read.

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Hebrews 12:11 For the moment, all discipline

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seems painful rather than pleasant,

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but later, what does it yield? The peaceful

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fruit of righteousness to those

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who have been trained by it.

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You know what discipline does?

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David says it's good I was afflicted -

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I keep Your statutes.

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You know what the writer of Hebrews says?

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He says it produces the peaceable fruits of righteousness

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when you're trained by it.

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Trained by what? Trained by the discipline.

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Discipline trains us. That's why it's called discipline.

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Discipline and training.

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Discipline in the military, you know, we talk about someone

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who is very disciplined.

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They get somewhere on time. He's a disciplined person.

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So often we think of discipline as a bad thing.

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It's a good thing. Discipline is good.

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Training is good.

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That's what discipline is meant to do.

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Now did you hear something?

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For the present, discipline is what?

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Painful. Listen:

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Don't think something's discipline in your life

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if it's not painful.

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That's another aspect of the nature of discipline.

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It's painful! It's called affliction - why?

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Because it afflicts.

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For the present, it's painful.

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But, it's an expression of God's blessing and God's love.

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Psalm 94:12 "Blessed is the man whom You discipline, O Lord."

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Psalm 119:75 "I know, O Lord, that Your rules are righteous,

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and that in faithfulness, You have afflicted me."

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God is faithful when He afflicts us.

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Proverbs 13:24 "Whoever spares the rod, hates his son.

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He who loves him is diligent to discipline him."

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Now that's true of men in general.

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How much more of the Lord.

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Here's the thing, discipline is meant to get our attention.

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And you know what?

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Sorrow and grief get our attention like nothing else does.

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God doesn't get our attention when we're happy.

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God doesn't get our attention typically

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when the bank account's full.

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God doesn't get our attention when the car's running good.

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You know when He gets our attention? Listen.

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All you have to do is look at your life.

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When do you pray most?

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When does a child of God pray like he never prays at another time?

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When things are hard.

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When the bottom's falling out.

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When the ends don't meet.

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Now listen to this, 2 Corinthians 7:10,

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"Godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation

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without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death."

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Well, here's the thing,

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Christ says, "I discipline those I love."

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It's meant to drive us to repentance.

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Pain is what's produced by discipline.

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Pain produces sorrow. It produces grief.

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Godly pain, godly sorrow, results in repentance.

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See it all ties together.

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Worldy sorrow leads to death.

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Well, here's what I'd ask you.

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You want to know whether a trial in your life

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is discipline of your Father versus

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just a trial of a lost man.

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All you have to do is ask yourself this,

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when trial and difficulty comes in your life,

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what's the fruit?

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Just ask yourself: what is the fruit?

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You know what you find?

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In the parable of the soils,

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when you've got the person that suddenly

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starts to experience affliction and persecution,

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guess what happens?

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They wither.

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Ask yourself that, when trial comes in your life,

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does it make you run under your Father's wing

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and hold all the more tightly?

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To pray all the more fervently?

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And to be drawn to your Scriptures

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all the more diligently?

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And I'll tell you this, if you discipline your child right,

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guess what happens?

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By the end they're hugging you.

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Oh, the world doesn't believe such things.

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They think spanking is cruel,

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but I'll tell you if you do it right, and you do it in love,

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your child will cling tightly to you by the end.

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If you do it wrong, they will go out resenting you.

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That's the same thing.

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And I'll tell you, God knows how to do it right.

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And if it's not producing the right fruit,

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it's an evidence that you're not His child.

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In other words, if hardship and difficulty come in your life,

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that which causes you pain, that which afflicts you,

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comes in your life and you find yourself

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resenting God.

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You don't like it.

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You know what? I've heard of people

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that they came to church and all of a sudden

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some calamity came into their life

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or somebody they love died

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and they never went to church after.

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You know what that tells me?

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Lost as anything. That was no affliction

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and chastising of God.

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That was a lost person that went through some difficulty.

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All you have to do is look at it.

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You know what God's discipline is meant to produce?

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Holiness. Righteousness. The peaceable fruits of righteousness,

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that you might share in His holiness.

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If chastening, if difficulty, if trial

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doesn't produce that in your life,

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no good.

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It's no good, folks.