1 00:00:14,457 --> 00:00:17,304 What would you say to someone 2 00:00:17,304 --> 00:00:21,255 who faithfully, regularly is listening 3 00:00:21,255 --> 00:00:23,015 to your sermons on the Internet, 4 00:00:23,015 --> 00:00:25,938 but they are not regularly and faithfully 5 00:00:25,938 --> 00:00:29,296 being in the Word of God and in prayer? 6 00:00:29,296 --> 00:00:35,765 Paul: Then hearing you are not hearing, 7 00:00:35,765 --> 00:00:38,686 and seeing you are not seeing. 8 00:00:38,686 --> 00:00:43,225 Again, listen, all men are fallible. 9 00:00:43,225 --> 00:00:45,977 There's no such thing as a great man of God, 10 00:00:45,977 --> 00:00:48,394 just wicked, tiny, pitiful men 11 00:00:48,394 --> 00:00:49,722 of a great and merciful God 12 00:00:49,722 --> 00:00:50,984 and so on and so forth. 13 00:00:50,984 --> 00:00:54,483 You can't live your life based upon 14 00:00:54,483 --> 00:00:57,330 the reality of other people. 15 00:00:57,330 --> 00:01:02,243 I greatly admire men like John Piper, 16 00:01:02,243 --> 00:01:05,501 but I can't live on John Piper. 17 00:01:05,501 --> 00:01:08,330 I can't live in some parasitic relationship 18 00:01:08,330 --> 00:01:09,815 in which he hears from God 19 00:01:09,815 --> 00:01:11,079 and I feed off of him. 20 00:01:11,079 --> 00:01:12,910 I have to go to the Word. 21 00:01:12,910 --> 00:01:14,386 I have to know God. 22 00:01:14,386 --> 00:01:16,026 I have to experience these truths. 23 00:01:16,026 --> 00:01:17,594 One of the greatest maladies, 24 00:01:17,594 --> 00:01:19,404 and a thing that's quite ridiculous 25 00:01:19,404 --> 00:01:20,572 that I see today 26 00:01:20,572 --> 00:01:23,673 is when I see a young man take a sermon 27 00:01:23,673 --> 00:01:25,191 from someone like John Piper 28 00:01:25,191 --> 00:01:27,120 and preach it word for word, 29 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,921 because not that the truth isn't important, 30 00:01:30,921 --> 00:01:32,773 but I can tell in a second. 31 00:01:32,773 --> 00:01:35,694 When that comes out of Dr. Piper's mouth, it's a reality. 32 00:01:35,694 --> 00:01:37,994 When it comes out of that young man's mouth, 33 00:01:37,994 --> 00:01:39,794 it's like a parrot talking to me. 34 00:01:39,794 --> 00:01:41,191 It's not a reality. 35 00:01:41,191 --> 00:01:43,733 It's not something he's experienced. 36 00:01:43,733 --> 00:01:46,889 They need to get in the Word and prayer. 37 00:01:46,889 --> 00:01:48,005 Lock themselves away. 38 00:01:48,005 --> 00:01:49,289 Let me say this, 39 00:01:49,289 --> 00:01:52,860 when I first was called into the ministry, 40 00:01:52,860 --> 00:01:55,760 my pastor who was a very godly man, 41 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:56,895 who walked with God, 42 00:01:56,895 --> 00:01:58,684 he looked at me one day and he said, 43 00:01:58,684 --> 00:02:00,428 "Boy, can you be alone?" 44 00:02:00,428 --> 00:02:02,292 When he said that I thought he meant 45 00:02:02,292 --> 00:02:04,545 that if I preached the truth, I would be alone. 46 00:02:04,545 --> 00:02:05,736 That's not what he meant. 47 00:02:05,736 --> 00:02:07,093 What he meant was this: 48 00:02:07,093 --> 00:02:08,610 When all the other boys are 49 00:02:08,610 --> 00:02:10,435 going on Christian retreats 50 00:02:10,435 --> 00:02:12,412 and hanging around in bachelor packs 51 00:02:12,412 --> 00:02:14,096 and going to Christian conferences 52 00:02:14,096 --> 00:02:15,134 and everything else, 53 00:02:15,134 --> 00:02:17,992 can you go into the closet alone 54 00:02:17,992 --> 00:02:19,096 and be with God? 55 00:02:19,096 --> 00:02:20,449 Can you go to your study 56 00:02:20,449 --> 00:02:21,645 and be alone with God? 57 00:02:21,645 --> 00:02:24,420 One of the things that you're going to have to realize, 58 00:02:24,420 --> 00:02:27,991 the young men who aspire to be used of God, 59 00:02:27,991 --> 00:02:30,002 is you're going to have to be a man 60 00:02:30,002 --> 00:02:31,402 who walks with God. 61 00:02:31,402 --> 00:02:33,913 And not even your closest friends can come with you. 62 00:02:33,913 --> 00:02:35,552 Not your wife. No one. 63 00:02:35,552 --> 00:02:37,642 You walk with God 64 00:02:37,642 --> 00:02:42,995 in the Word of God and prayer. 65 00:02:42,995 --> 00:02:45,502 Question: Kind of as a follow-up question, 66 00:02:45,502 --> 00:02:47,270 is it possible for someone 67 00:02:47,270 --> 00:02:51,170 to get so caught up in the personality 68 00:02:51,170 --> 00:02:53,193 or the ministry of a preacher, 69 00:02:53,193 --> 00:02:55,173 that they're more caught up with that man 70 00:02:55,173 --> 00:02:57,238 than they are with Jesus Christ Himself? 71 00:02:57,238 --> 00:02:58,695 Paul: Definitely. 72 00:02:58,695 --> 00:03:01,909 That's the case with me. 73 00:03:01,909 --> 00:03:07,180 I hope that I am preaching the truth. 74 00:03:07,180 --> 00:03:09,401 I trust that I'm saying things 75 00:03:09,401 --> 00:03:11,100 that are important, 76 00:03:11,100 --> 00:03:13,553 but I realize, it's just like David. 77 00:03:13,553 --> 00:03:15,698 Do you realize that the first people 78 00:03:15,698 --> 00:03:17,463 who aligned themselves with David, 79 00:03:17,463 --> 00:03:19,103 they aligned themselves with David 80 00:03:19,103 --> 00:03:21,633 just because they were mad at Saul? 81 00:03:21,633 --> 00:03:24,164 There are young men particularly out there today, 82 00:03:24,164 --> 00:03:26,816 they're mad at everything they see in Christianity. 83 00:03:26,816 --> 00:03:29,265 So the first supposed radical voice 84 00:03:29,265 --> 00:03:30,737 and radical life they see, 85 00:03:30,737 --> 00:03:32,711 they want to latch on to that. 86 00:03:32,711 --> 00:03:34,666 That's very, very dangerous. 87 00:03:34,666 --> 00:03:37,442 You see, the whole thing 88 00:03:37,442 --> 00:03:39,514 that we need to look at here 89 00:03:39,514 --> 00:03:43,619 is truth and character. 90 00:03:43,619 --> 00:03:45,945 The idea of someone being radical; 91 00:03:45,945 --> 00:03:47,938 the idea of someone being zealous, 92 00:03:47,938 --> 00:03:50,562 to latch yourself onto a person like that 93 00:03:50,562 --> 00:03:53,151 because they seem that way is very dangerous. 94 00:03:53,151 --> 00:03:56,647 Very dangerous. 95 00:03:56,647 --> 00:03:58,692 Question: Is it possible for someone 96 00:03:58,692 --> 00:04:01,173 to love the preaching ministry 97 00:04:01,173 --> 00:04:04,000 of someone like yourself or John Piper 98 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,248 and still be lost? 99 00:04:06,248 --> 00:04:09,396 Paul: Oh yes, it is very possible. 100 00:04:09,396 --> 00:04:14,748 It is very, very, very possible. 101 00:04:14,748 --> 00:04:17,366 You can become mesmerized 102 00:04:17,366 --> 00:04:21,776 by so many things. 103 00:04:21,776 --> 00:04:23,376 But you have to ask yourself, 104 00:04:23,376 --> 00:04:25,260 do I love Christ? 105 00:04:25,260 --> 00:04:27,088 Do I desire Christ? 106 00:04:27,088 --> 00:04:28,717 Some people like to hear preaching 107 00:04:28,717 --> 00:04:30,155 just because it's radical 108 00:04:30,155 --> 00:04:31,522 and they want to be radical. 109 00:04:31,522 --> 00:04:33,309 I know of a girl 110 00:04:33,309 --> 00:04:36,356 who literally was on her way to hell 111 00:04:36,356 --> 00:04:38,368 because she would not surrender to Christ 112 00:04:38,368 --> 00:04:40,590 and she would not surrender her life to Christ 113 00:04:40,590 --> 00:04:41,837 because she was afraid 114 00:04:41,837 --> 00:04:43,997 that if she surrendered her life to Christ 115 00:04:43,997 --> 00:04:47,074 He would not let her be a missionary. 116 00:04:47,074 --> 00:04:49,779 Anything can send you to hell. 117 00:04:49,779 --> 00:04:51,116 You know a lot of people 118 00:04:51,116 --> 00:04:53,307 do really look at you as a celebrity 119 00:04:53,307 --> 00:04:56,015 I don't know if there's anything you want to say 120 00:04:56,015 --> 00:04:57,970 to address people out there who do that 121 00:04:57,970 --> 00:05:00,820 because it does need to be addressed? 122 00:05:00,820 --> 00:05:02,636 And who better than you? 123 00:05:02,636 --> 00:05:09,941 Paul: Okay. 124 00:05:09,941 --> 00:05:13,556 A few years ago, I was preaching up in a place, 125 00:05:13,556 --> 00:05:16,546 and I had chosen that that week 126 00:05:16,546 --> 00:05:20,461 I was going to teach on the Old Testament. 127 00:05:20,461 --> 00:05:23,075 Many, many people came to hear me preach. 128 00:05:23,075 --> 00:05:25,538 Many people came to hear me preach. 129 00:05:25,538 --> 00:05:27,816 And the church filled up. 130 00:05:27,816 --> 00:05:31,808 There were seats put out and everything. 131 00:05:31,808 --> 00:05:34,718 And when I got up to preach the first sermon, 132 00:05:34,718 --> 00:05:36,914 I looked over to my right, 133 00:05:36,914 --> 00:05:43,463 and there seated was a man nobody knew. 134 00:05:43,463 --> 00:05:49,983 A Hebrew professor from India. 135 00:05:49,983 --> 00:05:56,170 And I knew something about him. 136 00:05:56,170 --> 00:06:00,035 And it just struck me as so ironic. 137 00:06:00,035 --> 00:06:03,119 First of all, he was very, very godly. 138 00:06:03,119 --> 00:06:04,372 Very godly husband, 139 00:06:04,372 --> 00:06:06,191 very godly father. 140 00:06:06,191 --> 00:06:08,267 He has forgotten more about God 141 00:06:08,267 --> 00:06:12,021 and the Old Testament than I'll ever know. 142 00:06:12,021 --> 00:06:14,594 I was terrified to think that he was in the audience 143 00:06:14,594 --> 00:06:18,672 and was going to hear me preach on the Old Testament. 144 00:06:18,672 --> 00:06:23,515 And the ironic thing is this, 145 00:06:23,515 --> 00:06:28,435 (incomplete thought) 146 00:06:28,435 --> 00:06:31,338 oftentimes it is not the man 147 00:06:31,338 --> 00:06:34,570 of highest character or the greatest nobility 148 00:06:34,570 --> 00:06:38,892 or the greatest knowledge that God uses. 149 00:06:38,892 --> 00:06:40,823 And many times, those who've been 150 00:06:40,823 --> 00:06:43,255 called to go out front, 151 00:06:43,255 --> 00:06:46,479 one of their greatest burdens and chains 152 00:06:46,479 --> 00:06:50,380 is they know that there are men 153 00:06:50,380 --> 00:06:52,758 that they're not worthy to carry their sandals 154 00:06:52,758 --> 00:06:54,583 who are sitting there in the audience 155 00:06:54,583 --> 00:06:56,426 and no one knows their name, 156 00:06:56,426 --> 00:06:58,522 and yet they're far more the man of God 157 00:06:58,522 --> 00:07:02,648 than the one speaking in the pulpit. 158 00:07:02,648 --> 00:07:08,977 God uses the ignoble. 159 00:07:08,977 --> 00:07:11,369 He uses the weak. 160 00:07:11,369 --> 00:07:13,364 Another thing, I know that - 161 00:07:13,364 --> 00:07:16,449 I believe God has used me, 162 00:07:16,449 --> 00:07:20,677 but it's been for a certain purpose. 163 00:07:20,677 --> 00:07:24,845 To cry out that things are wrong. 164 00:07:24,845 --> 00:07:26,593 But I know that's what I am. 165 00:07:26,593 --> 00:07:31,746 I am not a John Piper. 166 00:07:31,746 --> 00:07:33,942 I'm not the great expositor. 167 00:07:33,942 --> 00:07:39,162 I don't have the mind of an R.C. Sproul. 168 00:07:39,162 --> 00:07:41,764 I am what I am. 169 00:07:41,764 --> 00:07:46,665 And God will sometimes use people like me. 170 00:07:46,665 --> 00:07:50,839 We're limited, but we are used. 171 00:07:50,839 --> 00:07:54,549 Another thing I think is a very, very good story 172 00:07:54,549 --> 00:07:56,385 is I preached in a place one time 173 00:07:56,385 --> 00:07:58,487 and a genuine revival broke out. 174 00:07:58,487 --> 00:08:02,057 And I don't use that term lightly. 175 00:08:02,057 --> 00:08:04,856 Some people were being converted. 176 00:08:04,856 --> 00:08:07,292 Other people were fiercely angry, 177 00:08:07,292 --> 00:08:08,899 threw things at my wife and I 178 00:08:08,899 --> 00:08:11,838 as we walked across the campus. 179 00:08:11,838 --> 00:08:14,482 But a revival broke out. 180 00:08:14,482 --> 00:08:17,444 And afterwards, some of the young Bible students 181 00:08:17,444 --> 00:08:18,894 came up to me and said, 182 00:08:18,894 --> 00:08:22,750 "Mr. Washer, can we go to Peru with you?" 183 00:08:22,750 --> 00:08:25,090 I said, well, you can come and visit me. 184 00:08:25,090 --> 00:08:30,839 So, when they got off that plane in Lima, 185 00:08:30,839 --> 00:08:34,235 they thought I was the Apostle Paul. 186 00:08:34,235 --> 00:08:35,887 When they got back on that plane 187 00:08:35,887 --> 00:08:37,085 a month and a half later, 188 00:08:37,085 --> 00:08:40,593 they were praying for my salvation. 189 00:08:40,593 --> 00:08:42,529 The point I'm trying to make 190 00:08:42,529 --> 00:08:46,224 is I hope I'm not a hypocrite, 191 00:08:46,224 --> 00:08:50,294 and I hope that I sincerely want to follow Christ, 192 00:08:50,294 --> 00:08:53,814 that I really want to follow Jesus. 193 00:08:53,814 --> 00:08:58,877 And that they didn't see someone who was fake, 194 00:08:58,877 --> 00:09:03,054 but all they saw was just what all men are. 195 00:09:03,054 --> 00:09:08,165 You know, a man is what his wife sees. 196 00:09:08,165 --> 00:09:12,992 A man is what the closest people to him know. 197 00:09:12,992 --> 00:09:16,230 And all they saw was a person 198 00:09:16,230 --> 00:09:17,409 by the grace of God 199 00:09:17,409 --> 00:09:19,447 seeking to follow Jesus 200 00:09:19,447 --> 00:09:28,665 whom God had helped in certain labors. 201 00:09:28,665 --> 00:09:33,273 I try to study the Word every day, 202 00:09:33,273 --> 00:09:36,072 systematically reading through the Bible. 203 00:09:36,072 --> 00:09:38,323 That's my devotional time. 204 00:09:38,323 --> 00:09:40,370 To pray, to be on my knees 205 00:09:40,370 --> 00:09:42,902 in the morning watch, 206 00:09:42,902 --> 00:09:45,124 to be on my knees in the night watch 207 00:09:45,124 --> 00:09:47,862 before I go to bed. 208 00:09:47,862 --> 00:09:53,146 Or if He wakes me, to be a watchman. 209 00:09:53,146 --> 00:09:56,292 But I struggle - 210 00:09:56,292 --> 00:09:58,611 I struggle in Scripture memory a lot. 211 00:09:58,611 --> 00:10:00,685 I try to memorize Scripture, 212 00:10:00,685 --> 00:10:04,683 and I think my 8 year old's better at it than I am. 213 00:10:04,683 --> 00:10:07,865 I struggle a great deal at times 214 00:10:07,865 --> 00:10:10,252 with depression, but I am getting 215 00:10:10,252 --> 00:10:12,442 greater and greater victory over that 216 00:10:12,442 --> 00:10:13,928 because of some of the truths 217 00:10:13,928 --> 00:10:19,443 that I learned from Jay Adams actually. 218 00:10:19,443 --> 00:10:22,792 Just men... sometimes I have to 219 00:10:22,792 --> 00:10:25,239 apologize to my wife. 220 00:10:25,239 --> 00:10:27,295 Sometimes I have to ask my children 221 00:10:27,295 --> 00:10:30,900 to forgive me. 222 00:10:30,900 --> 00:10:32,724 Anyone who is used of God 223 00:10:32,724 --> 00:10:35,201 is just living proof that God still speaks 224 00:10:35,201 --> 00:10:36,916 through rocks and donkeys. 225 00:10:36,916 --> 00:10:39,632 That's about all that you can say about it. 226 00:10:39,632 --> 00:10:41,186 But He is faithful. 227 00:10:41,186 --> 00:10:44,107 He's very, very faithful. 228 00:10:44,107 --> 00:10:46,213 He's very kind. 229 00:10:46,213 --> 00:10:49,726 You know, those of us who believe in sovereign grace, 230 00:10:49,726 --> 00:10:52,001 we ought to have some 231 00:10:52,001 --> 00:10:55,335 toward other people. 232 00:10:55,335 --> 00:11:00,411 We really ought to. 233 00:11:00,411 --> 00:11:02,804 Sometimes I get very afraid 234 00:11:02,804 --> 00:11:05,568 when I think about what people think about me. 235 00:11:05,568 --> 00:11:07,326 Some people who don't like me 236 00:11:07,326 --> 00:11:09,867 are probably partially justified, 237 00:11:09,867 --> 00:11:12,254 but I think they're maybe partially wrong. 238 00:11:12,254 --> 00:11:15,365 A lot of people who really like me 239 00:11:15,365 --> 00:11:17,098 are sometimes very oblivious 240 00:11:17,098 --> 00:11:19,278 to what really goes on 241 00:11:19,278 --> 00:11:23,556 as far as weaknesses 242 00:11:23,556 --> 00:11:27,523 and not following Christ as I wish that I could. 243 00:11:27,523 --> 00:11:29,847 We just all need prayer. 244 00:11:29,847 --> 00:11:35,104 Let me say this. 245 00:11:35,104 --> 00:11:38,317 In that statement about sovereign grace, 246 00:11:38,317 --> 00:11:40,670 that's David Miller told me that, 247 00:11:40,670 --> 00:11:47,603 so I want to give him credit. 248 00:11:47,603 --> 00:11:51,158 You know what scares me the most? 249 00:11:51,158 --> 00:11:56,780 Is if all of a sudden, the limelight dies down, 250 00:11:56,780 --> 00:12:00,467 and no one cares to hear me preach anymore. 251 00:12:00,467 --> 00:12:03,343 That's not what bothers me. 252 00:12:03,343 --> 00:12:05,194 What scares me is this: 253 00:12:05,194 --> 00:12:07,659 at that moment, 254 00:12:07,659 --> 00:12:13,781 my true heart is going to be revealed. 255 00:12:13,781 --> 00:12:16,546 What will it look like? 256 00:12:16,546 --> 00:12:17,857 I hope that I will still 257 00:12:17,857 --> 00:12:21,860 joyfully want to follow the Lord 258 00:12:21,860 --> 00:12:24,838 and preach and whatever He gives me to do, 259 00:12:24,838 --> 00:12:26,372 but I always think about that. 260 00:12:26,372 --> 00:12:28,067 What happens when one day 261 00:12:28,067 --> 00:12:33,170 you walk in the building, 262 00:12:33,170 --> 00:12:35,861 and sometimes it's better that someone be mad at you 263 00:12:35,861 --> 00:12:37,506 than no one feel anything at all. 264 00:12:37,506 --> 00:12:40,435 What happens when no one's even concerned enough about you 265 00:12:40,435 --> 00:12:43,270 to even be angry with you anymore? 266 00:12:43,270 --> 00:12:45,834 And you just kind of disappear, 267 00:12:45,834 --> 00:12:48,587 which will happen. 268 00:12:48,587 --> 00:12:51,248 Will my heart show 269 00:12:51,248 --> 00:12:54,370 that I'm full of pride? 270 00:12:54,370 --> 00:13:00,149 That I desire this kind of stuff? 271 00:13:00,149 --> 00:13:04,173 That's a good question. 272 00:13:04,173 --> 00:13:06,252 Question: If you could, 273 00:13:06,252 --> 00:13:09,308 in a real compact form, 274 00:13:09,308 --> 00:13:11,621 what have you learned from Jay Adams 275 00:13:11,621 --> 00:13:17,235 concerning depression? 276 00:13:17,235 --> 00:13:19,813 Paul: The question is what have I learned 277 00:13:19,813 --> 00:13:24,316 from Jay Adams concerning depression. 278 00:13:24,316 --> 00:13:27,477 And that is, I guess the greatest thing 279 00:13:27,477 --> 00:13:30,907 would be this, 280 00:13:30,907 --> 00:13:33,873 that to be able to discern 281 00:13:33,873 --> 00:13:36,472 when I am believing a lie - 282 00:13:36,472 --> 00:13:38,544 believing something that is not true, 283 00:13:38,544 --> 00:13:40,651 that does not conform to God's Word, 284 00:13:40,651 --> 00:13:42,308 and then to preach - 285 00:13:42,308 --> 00:13:45,213 instead of letting my heart preach to me, 286 00:13:45,213 --> 00:13:48,433 that I ought to preach God's Word to my heart 287 00:13:48,433 --> 00:13:51,557 and stand on the realities of God's Word 288 00:13:51,557 --> 00:13:54,598 rather than on feelings. 289 00:13:54,598 --> 00:13:57,264 Another thing that I think has been very helpful 290 00:13:57,264 --> 00:14:01,784 is that so many things that would cause us 291 00:14:01,784 --> 00:14:05,928 to pity and coddle a man, 292 00:14:05,928 --> 00:14:13,409 instead, the man should be rebuked 293 00:14:13,409 --> 00:14:15,679 because he's believing a lie. 294 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:19,530 Or so many things that seem to be 295 00:14:19,530 --> 00:14:22,566 where we treat ourselves as pitiful victims 296 00:14:22,566 --> 00:14:25,630 when in actuality, we're guilty criminals, 297 00:14:25,630 --> 00:14:27,438 and just facing that. 298 00:14:27,438 --> 00:14:29,251 Facing that with the Word of God 299 00:14:29,251 --> 00:14:30,802 and repenting. 300 00:14:30,802 --> 00:14:33,032 Another thing I think is very, very good 301 00:14:33,032 --> 00:14:37,825 is that it is not enough to say no 302 00:14:37,825 --> 00:14:40,770 to the flesh; 303 00:14:40,770 --> 00:14:43,893 to say no to an evil practice, 304 00:14:43,893 --> 00:14:47,704 but to substitute that evil practice 305 00:14:47,704 --> 00:14:51,672 with the doing of good, with virtue. 306 00:14:51,672 --> 00:14:54,126 It's not just putting off, 307 00:14:54,126 --> 00:14:56,191 but it's putting on, 308 00:14:56,191 --> 00:14:59,429 and much of that has been very, very helpful. 309 00:14:59,429 --> 00:15:00,987 Very helpful.