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I'm going to read this to you guys

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and then you guys tell me

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how you'd counsel this guy.

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And look, in a lot of these,

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it's not that there's 
necessarily a perfect answer,

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I'm just wanting you to think

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and be discerning

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and think Scripturally,

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seek to apply the Scripture.

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So you have this guy Alex.

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"Hi Pastor Tim, I'm currently serving

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as a youth leader in my church.

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My first question is:

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It seems like every 
time I teach the youths

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they don't seem serious about it.

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I mean, they actually did tell me

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that they like me much better than

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the previous youth leader.

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They also told me that they prefer

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to listen to me teach over 
the elders in the church

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apparently because the teachings

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of the other elders are 
somewhat always the same

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but worded differently.

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That I have to admit as I feel

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that sermons on YouTube give me

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much more growth than the sermons

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I hear at my own church.

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I don't say this to boast,

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but rather to just give 
you more information.

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I really do spend a lot 
of time in making sure

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the messages I create are 
practical and biblically sound.

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However, I just feel like 
if the people I'm teaching

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are not really serious about 
applying what is being taught

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should I continue teaching those people?

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To add, I'm teaching youths

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that are ages 15-19.

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My second question 
is that I've always been

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somewhat of a self-taught person

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in a sense that when I first 
became a follower of Jesus

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I never had a Paul the 
same way Timothy did.

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Everything I learned was just strictly

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based on personal Bible reading,

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reading Christian books, watching sermons,

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and of course, my own 
personal experiences.

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Now of course, I believe I was guided

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by the Holy Spirit in my learning,

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but I've always desired a mentor

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who could actually guide me in my walk,

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but I feel no one in the 
church could be that person.

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Most of the elders of my 
church seem too busy

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and no one ever offered 
to train me in some way

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before I was asked whether I 
wanted to teach at the church.

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I'm like the only 25 
year old in my church.

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No one else in my age range.

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The other youths aged 15-19

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are not really serious about their walk.

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I just feel like sometimes I'm not growing

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the way I'm supposed to,

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and I sometimes question 
whether I'm qualified

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simply because I'm 
not trained the same way

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a person like Timothy was 
perhaps trained by Paul.

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My question is, is it right for me

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to continue serving as a youth leader

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even though I'm not really growing

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the way I feel I should be growing?

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And also because I may not have

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the appropriate training 
that a youth leader

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should probably have?"

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So there you have it.

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What do you tell a guy like that?

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James: He said, 
"my messages are practical."

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I think that's not what the kids need.

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He says they're not really 
serious about applying it.

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Well, probably because 
they're not born again,

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so I think he needs to change 
what he's saying to the kids.

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They're not serious about 
their walk. Why is that?

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And he can give practical messages all day

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to a bunch of goats and 
they won't want to apply it.

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He's got a great evangelistic opportunity.

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Tim: Yeah, that's definitely 
a thought I had.

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I mean, I would look 
at a situation like this

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or like any situation that 
we get in in our life.

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And I would begin to ask questions.

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You need to consider your options.

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You're in a situation like this.

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What are the options?

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What are the options?

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Tell me. What are some of 
the options this guy has?

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(from the room): Leave?

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Tim: He could leave.

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He could quit teaching.

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He could quit having a problem with elders

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that are too busy.

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I mean, look, the reality is

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I don't know the guy writing.

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He could be in a wonderful church

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and all the problems could be him.

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One of the problems not knowing people

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is when they email in.

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You know, one of the 
things that you recognize

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is he's not dialoguing with 
his own pastors on this.

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The Internet is a very convenient place

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to vent your frustrations

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because you're not eyeball 
to eyeball with people

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and you're not eyeball to eyeball 
with people who know you.

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And so, it's pretty easy.

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It's pretty easy to slant things

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the way that you're 
almost calculated to get

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the kind of answer that you want to hear.

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And so, we recognize that

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when we get these questions.

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We recognize that we're getting

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one person's opinion of a situation.

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But I would say, yeah, 
what are the options?

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One option - probably 
the most radical option -

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you just leave it all.

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Go to a different church.

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He could do that.

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I mean, he could do that.

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If he feels like, well, one,

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he's the only 25 year old

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if he wants to go where 
there's other people his age.

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Two, if he feels like 
the whole youth group

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is basically uninterested,

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and it sounds like he's even wondering

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whether he's called to teach

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or whether he's qualified to teach.

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It sounds like he's got elders at least

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that he feels are too busy

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if that's really the case.

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He could put all those thing together

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and he could say,

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maybe this isn't the 
best place for me to be.

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What's probably the minimally difficult

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or radical decision that he could make?

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Yeah, do nothing.

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You know, when people are faced

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by problems, by difficulties in life,

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you could do nothing.

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But what are a number 
of other possibilities?

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One is what James said.

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That came to my mind

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that look, if I'm heading up -
(incomplete thought)

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Maybe one of the problems here

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is that this guy is like a lot of 
the Christian realm out there -

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professing Christian realm -

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is you basically assume 
everybody's a Christian

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that says they're a Christian.

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You know, when you watch "Logic on Fire"

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one of the things that they say

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about Martyn Lloyd-Jones 
when he went to Westminster -

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he did not assume that everybody

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sitting in the pews was converted.

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So many of his messages 
were extremely evangelistic

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and he saw many of the people converted.

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And I think if you're discerning

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and it sounds like he's discerning -

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he's at least able to recognize

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that these young people 
don't seem very enthused.

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It seems like he's recognizing

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that there's very little 
commitment on their part.

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And so, yeah, I think James is right.

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Basically what it sounds to me

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is that he's dealing with a 
whole youth group of lost kids.

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And so if you recognize that,

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like James said, it's a huge opportunity.

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What an opportunity for this guy to say,

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hey, you know what?

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I need to stop trying to 
deal with these people

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like they're Christians,

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and giving them these Christian messages,

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and really learn what the Gospel is

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and preach that to them.

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Now as far as being qualified,

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I don't know that.

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I don't know how to answer that

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because I don't know the guy

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and I've not been exposed to his gifts.

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I don't know where his Christianity is.

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I don't know where his maturity level is.

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(from the room)

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I'm wondering, he sounds pretty mature.

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But I'm wondering, I've 
never been on a mission,

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but I'm thinking maybe I would 
have the same questions

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if I was on a mission and 
thinking "am I qualified?"

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But maybe I am qualified, you know?

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I just need to push myself harder

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or maybe I'm not qualified.

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You know, I'm guessing that's probably

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some of the questions 
you would struggle with

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if you're out on a mission

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or doing things of this nature.

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Tim: Well, let me ask you this.

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Do you know what was involved

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in Paul selecting Timothy to go with him

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on his missionary endeavor?

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Do you remember that account

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when Timothy first shows up?

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He was well spoken of.

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Do you remember which churches?

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Anybody remember the churches?

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Was it Lystra and Iconium?

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He was well spoken of

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by the brethren in those churches.

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How do we know? I mean, look,

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when you have the 
qualifications for elders,

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you see 1 Timothy set in the context

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of Timothy being at Ephesus.

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The church being the pillar

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and the ground of truth.

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What we recognize is that 
even Paul and Barnabas

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as supernatural as it was 
that the Spirit of God

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seemed to indicate some 
way to the church at Antioch

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that those two were sent forth,

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yet what we find is that they were

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two of the five prominent 
men in that church

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who were exercising their gifts 
in preaching and teaching.

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And my whole point here is this,

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even think with me about 
look out amongst yourselves

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and choose seven men

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who are full of the Holy Spirit.

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You know, when they were looking

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for men to serve the 
tables there in Acts 6.

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Look out among yourselves.

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They called the brethren to 
look out among themselves.

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And I think that the 
basic biblical pattern

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is that you have people tested

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in the community of the local church.

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Asking somebody far away 
through the website

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about whether you're qualified or not,

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really, we can't make that assessment.

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You could hear somebody say certain things

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that could convince 
you they're not qualified,

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but it's very difficult 
to tell from far away.

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The place for a person's 
gifts to be tested

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are right in the local church.

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The people who would best know

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whether this guy is qualified 
to do what he's doing

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would be his own elders.

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Now whether there's any incompetency

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on the part of his elders, I don't know.

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What thinking went into their minds

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before they put him in this position?

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And he seems to sense some inability

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to access these guys' time.

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But your own church would really be

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the place to say that.

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I mean, when we're talking about people

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doing Sunday School

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or we're thinking about elders or deacons

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or we're looking at the possibility

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of sending people overseas,

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and when it comes to 
church planting endeavors,

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when it comes to setting 
up preaching rotations

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00:12:31,334 --> 00:12:33,370
to church plants that we've started,

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I mean, basically what is going 
to go into those decisions

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is the observations that we have made

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in two primary areas:

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One, character. Two, gift.

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Do they have outstanding character?

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And do they have the 
adequate spiritual gifts

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to do what we're asking them to do?

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And the place for both of 
those things to be proven

264
00:13:05,692 --> 00:13:09,621
is right in their own local church.

265
00:13:09,621 --> 00:13:15,540
Provenness is really the only way

266
00:13:15,540 --> 00:13:19,039
to figure out if somebody is qualified.

267
00:13:19,039 --> 00:13:22,080
Unless, of course, you 
get some supernatural -

268
00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:26,954
in some way, the Spirit of God said

269
00:13:26,954 --> 00:13:29,762
send Paul and Barnabas.

270
00:13:29,762 --> 00:13:31,505
Whether that came through a prophet,

271
00:13:31,505 --> 00:13:39,119
(incomplete thought)

272
00:13:39,119 --> 00:13:42,828
Maybe that's just a way of saying

273
00:13:42,828 --> 00:13:44,833
that it was confirmed through the church.

274
00:13:44,833 --> 00:13:47,799
Because the church is said to send them

275
00:13:47,799 --> 00:13:52,039
just as it says the Spirit 
sent them in Acts 13.

276
00:13:52,039 --> 00:13:54,611
We don't really know the 
mechanism God used there

277
00:13:54,611 --> 00:13:56,116
to communicate that,

278
00:13:56,116 --> 00:13:58,989
but typically, the way that 
we would look today

279
00:13:58,989 --> 00:14:11,075
is tested in the community of believers.

280
00:14:11,075 --> 00:14:12,881
So I mean, if I was in his position

281
00:14:12,881 --> 00:14:14,103
and I was having doubts,

282
00:14:14,103 --> 00:14:16,033
the first people I'd go to is the elders

283
00:14:16,033 --> 00:14:18,349
and say are you sure 
I'm qualified to do this,

284
00:14:18,349 --> 00:14:23,547
and I would have discussions 
with them about this.

285
00:14:23,547 --> 00:14:25,387
But like James said, I would take this

286
00:14:25,387 --> 00:14:27,716
as a huge evangelistic opportunity.

287
00:14:27,716 --> 00:14:29,844
I mean, if I had any burden to be teaching

288
00:14:29,844 --> 00:14:32,421
or any burden evangelistically,

289
00:14:32,421 --> 00:14:34,871
and suddenly when I become aware -

290
00:14:34,871 --> 00:14:36,442
maybe in the beginning I thought,

291
00:14:36,442 --> 00:14:39,078
hey, I'm going to have 15-19 year olds

292
00:14:39,078 --> 00:14:40,848
and they're all professing Christians

293
00:14:40,848 --> 00:14:43,021
and I come into it 
thinking that I'm dealing

294
00:14:43,021 --> 00:14:44,865
with young people who are Christians,

295
00:14:44,865 --> 00:14:47,303
and I want to talk to them about purity,

296
00:14:47,303 --> 00:14:48,716
but I recognize after awhile

297
00:14:48,716 --> 00:14:51,159
that they're just dead and 
they don't really care

298
00:14:51,159 --> 00:14:54,183
and they're not likely 
walking in purity anyway,

299
00:14:54,183 --> 00:14:56,105
and it just suddenly dawns on me

300
00:14:56,105 --> 00:14:58,297
that it's probably 
because they're all lost.

301
00:14:58,297 --> 00:15:00,130
You've got a bunch of young people

302
00:15:00,130 --> 00:15:03,247
that have made professions, been baptized.

303
00:15:03,247 --> 00:15:06,670
Now if that's true, I think 
that says something

304
00:15:06,670 --> 00:15:09,055
about the quality of the 
church in and of itself,

305
00:15:09,055 --> 00:15:10,910
if you've got a bunch of young people

306
00:15:10,910 --> 00:15:13,349
that have all been run 
through the baptismal waters

307
00:15:13,349 --> 00:15:15,664
and most of them are not converted

308
00:15:15,664 --> 00:15:17,298
or all of them are not converted,

309
00:15:17,298 --> 00:15:19,544
that says something about the discernment

310
00:15:19,544 --> 00:15:20,839
of the elders as well.

311
00:15:20,839 --> 00:15:22,799
And that would begin to make me question

312
00:15:22,799 --> 00:15:24,907
whether their discernment about putting me

313
00:15:24,907 --> 00:15:29,485
in that teaching position 
was necessarily good.

314
00:15:29,485 --> 00:15:31,616
But it is an opportunity to say,

315
00:15:31,616 --> 00:15:35,950
hey, I've got a room full of lost people

316
00:15:35,950 --> 00:15:37,702
and they're not responding well

317
00:15:37,702 --> 00:15:39,936
when I'm basically exhorting them

318
00:15:39,936 --> 00:15:42,672
with these Christian exhortations.

319
00:15:42,672 --> 00:15:44,740
Yeah, I think going right to the root

320
00:15:44,740 --> 00:15:49,359
of hey, you know what 
real Christianity looks like?

321
00:15:49,359 --> 00:15:50,866
And you know what I'm seeing?

322
00:15:50,866 --> 00:15:52,333
Most of you don't have it.

323
00:15:52,333 --> 00:15:54,170
Maybe all of you don't have it.

324
00:15:54,170 --> 00:15:56,122
You know, all of you are likely

325
00:15:56,122 --> 00:15:58,981
going to end up being like Matthew 7 says,

326
00:15:58,981 --> 00:16:01,683
saying "Lord, Lord," but in that day,

327
00:16:01,683 --> 00:16:04,847
you're going to hear, "I never knew you."

328
00:16:04,847 --> 00:16:08,287
(Incomplete thought)

329
00:16:08,287 --> 00:16:12,165
My suspicion is that if all 
these folks are baptized

330
00:16:12,165 --> 00:16:14,062
and the elders actually did that

331
00:16:14,062 --> 00:16:16,302
and you begin to scare the kids that way -

332
00:16:16,302 --> 00:16:19,281
cause their consciences to wake up -

333
00:16:19,281 --> 00:16:24,741
probably they would then 
think he wasn't qualified.

334
00:16:24,741 --> 00:16:27,356
But that would probably 
prove all the more that he is.

335
00:16:27,356 --> 00:16:29,443
And that would probably prove all the more

336
00:16:29,443 --> 00:16:31,037
that he's really in a bad church

337
00:16:31,037 --> 00:16:34,611
and he's got some bad leadership.

338
00:16:34,611 --> 00:16:36,564
But anyway.

339
00:16:36,564 --> 00:16:38,143
(from the room)

340
00:16:38,143 --> 00:16:39,944
I have a question.

341
00:16:39,944 --> 00:16:42,653
What role does consistency play

342
00:16:42,653 --> 00:16:44,819
in being a proven Christian?

343
00:16:44,819 --> 00:16:47,921
Or just other attributes 
that would contribute?

344
00:16:47,921 --> 00:16:50,886
Tim: Well, I mean, in 2 Timothy

345
00:16:50,886 --> 00:16:54,256
Paul specifically tells Timothy 
to look for faithful men.

346
00:16:54,256 --> 00:16:56,205
And we were just down in Mexico

347
00:16:56,205 --> 00:16:58,634
and the question came up

348
00:16:58,634 --> 00:17:04,467
about qualifications.

349
00:17:04,467 --> 00:17:06,092
People were wanting to know

350
00:17:06,092 --> 00:17:15,418
what does it take to go 
to the mission field?

351
00:17:15,418 --> 00:17:20,776
Look, we have different sorts of people

352
00:17:20,776 --> 00:17:23,313
that we use in our church.

353
00:17:23,313 --> 00:17:24,749
Some are like John Sytsma.

354
00:17:24,749 --> 00:17:26,999
They oversee a missionary team.

355
00:17:26,999 --> 00:17:29,539
Some are like Matt Wilkinson.

356
00:17:29,539 --> 00:17:31,874
He's church planting in Saltillo.

357
00:17:31,874 --> 00:17:36,338
But others are like Jenny

358
00:17:36,338 --> 00:17:40,676
who go as a missionary helper to Lebanon.

359
00:17:40,676 --> 00:17:47,966
(incomplete thought)

360
00:17:47,966 --> 00:17:54,071
Obviously when we're 
talking John and Matt,

361
00:17:54,071 --> 00:17:58,831
we're looking for men that 
are basically elder caliber.

362
00:17:58,831 --> 00:18:00,532
That's true of John.

363
00:18:00,537 --> 00:18:05,912
Whether we would say that's 
distinctly true of Matt,

364
00:18:05,912 --> 00:18:09,255
Matt never served as an elder 
in our church here at home,

365
00:18:09,255 --> 00:18:11,480
but we did lay hands on him

366
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,019
in sending him forth as a missionary.

367
00:18:15,019 --> 00:18:16,683
But then we get missionary helpers.

368
00:18:16,683 --> 00:18:18,534
But I tell you this, in all of them -

369
00:18:18,534 --> 00:18:20,749
Craig just recently said 
when we're thinking

370
00:18:20,749 --> 00:18:24,722
about new teachers or revamping teaching -

371
00:18:24,722 --> 00:18:29,119
we've committed Sunday 
School classes to Craig

372
00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:30,871
now that he's an elder.

373
00:18:30,871 --> 00:18:33,108
And he told me, he said,

374
00:18:33,108 --> 00:18:36,338
I'm not putting anyone

375
00:18:36,338 --> 00:18:37,932
in the Sunday School rotation

376
00:18:37,932 --> 00:18:39,896
who doesn't come to the prayer meeting.

377
00:18:39,896 --> 00:18:41,007
And I would say amen,

378
00:18:41,007 --> 00:18:43,782
and I would not send anybody 
to the foreign mission field

379
00:18:43,782 --> 00:18:46,771
unless they were faithful 
in their attendance.

380
00:18:46,771 --> 00:18:49,972
Now look, I recognize if they've 
got Wednesday evening class

381
00:18:49,972 --> 00:18:53,604
or they're on a work rotation 
where they have to work

382
00:18:53,604 --> 00:18:56,826
every third Wednesday, 
or whatever that looks like,

383
00:18:56,826 --> 00:18:59,890
I recognize.

384
00:18:59,890 --> 00:19:03,213
But when people are flippant

385
00:19:03,213 --> 00:19:08,207
and they're not disciplined

386
00:19:08,207 --> 00:19:13,371
and they're not prioritizing 
the prayer meeting,

387
00:19:13,371 --> 00:19:16,038
I want people that are prayerful

388
00:19:16,038 --> 00:19:19,072
that are in any kind of ministry,

389
00:19:19,072 --> 00:19:22,280
any kind of leadership, 
any kind of teaching.

390
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:23,900
We need prayerful people.

391
00:19:23,900 --> 00:19:25,152
We need faithful people.

392
00:19:25,152 --> 00:19:26,726
What does faithful look like?

393
00:19:26,726 --> 00:19:29,334
People that keep their word.
People that come on time.

394
00:19:29,334 --> 00:19:31,788
People that if they're 
given a responsibility,

395
00:19:31,788 --> 00:19:33,246
they don't drop the ball.

396
00:19:33,246 --> 00:19:34,930
They're very meticulous about it.

397
00:19:34,930 --> 00:19:37,563
They're very conscientious.

398
00:19:37,563 --> 00:19:39,475
I mean, I remember one time

399
00:19:39,475 --> 00:19:44,180
we had committed the 
leading of music to a man,

400
00:19:44,180 --> 00:19:47,426
and he showed up at the church

401
00:19:47,426 --> 00:19:50,874
and didn't lead.

402
00:19:50,874 --> 00:19:52,328
And I looked at him,

403
00:19:52,328 --> 00:19:55,974
and he just decided he 
wasn't going to do it.

404
00:19:55,974 --> 00:20:01,046
I mean, that's dropping the ball.

405
00:20:01,046 --> 00:20:04,561
If you've got a Sunday School class,

406
00:20:04,561 --> 00:20:07,797
you're not just waking 
up on Sunday morning

407
00:20:07,797 --> 00:20:11,351
and putting together something 
in 20 minutes and running in.

408
00:20:11,351 --> 00:20:12,775
You're serious.

409
00:20:12,775 --> 00:20:17,219
You're going to give yourself to it.

410
00:20:17,219 --> 00:20:18,631
(from the room)

411
00:20:18,631 --> 00:20:20,958
So to be a proven Christian,

412
00:20:20,958 --> 00:20:24,357
you said consistency, faithfulness,

413
00:20:24,357 --> 00:20:29,363
maybe being tested.

414
00:20:29,363 --> 00:20:31,773
Tim: Well, when we talk about tested,

415
00:20:31,773 --> 00:20:34,115
I mean one of the things we're looking for

416
00:20:34,115 --> 00:20:36,061
is the character.

417
00:20:36,061 --> 00:20:44,170
Is there pride or humility?

418
00:20:44,170 --> 00:20:46,710
Purity?

419
00:20:46,710 --> 00:20:48,411
Their honesty?

420
00:20:48,411 --> 00:20:52,608
Their work ethic?

421
00:20:52,608 --> 00:20:55,533
Are they diligent in the Scriptures?

422
00:20:55,533 --> 00:20:58,165
Are they growing the 
knowledge of Scripture?

423
00:20:58,165 --> 00:21:01,410
Do they have a consistent 
walk with the Lord?

424
00:21:01,410 --> 00:21:03,003
Is it real?

425
00:21:03,003 --> 00:21:04,762
Is there reality in their life?

426
00:21:04,762 --> 00:21:06,416
Is there growth in their life?

427
00:21:06,416 --> 00:21:11,162
Is there a fear of God, a love of Christ?

428
00:21:11,162 --> 00:21:15,907
As far as gift, that's going 
to demonstrate itself.

429
00:21:15,907 --> 00:21:17,317
(Incomplete thought)

430
00:21:17,317 --> 00:21:19,100
Basically, what is a spiritual gift?

431
00:21:19,100 --> 00:21:21,141
A spiritual gift is not something somebody

432
00:21:21,141 --> 00:21:22,417
is naturally born with.

433
00:21:22,417 --> 00:21:24,912
It's something that the Spirit of God

434
00:21:24,912 --> 00:21:26,937
imparts to a believer.

435
00:21:26,937 --> 00:21:33,098
Now it may be consistent 
with physical giftedness,

436
00:21:33,098 --> 00:21:37,874
but it is the Spirit specifically enabling

437
00:21:37,874 --> 00:21:40,753
an individual to do something in a way

438
00:21:40,753 --> 00:21:42,649
that benefits and blesses

439
00:21:42,649 --> 00:21:46,120
and imparts grace to God's people.

440
00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:48,316
And the truth is it's like an evangelist.

441
00:21:48,316 --> 00:21:50,521
Somebody can call 
themselves an evangelist,

442
00:21:50,521 --> 00:21:52,342
but you know what, if you're not able

443
00:21:52,342 --> 00:21:53,590
to communicate the Gospel

444
00:21:53,590 --> 00:21:55,514
and actually see people's lives changed,

445
00:21:55,514 --> 00:21:57,363
I doubt you're an evangelist.

446
00:21:57,363 --> 00:21:59,326
A person can call themselves a preacher,

447
00:21:59,326 --> 00:22:00,919
but if they step in the pulpit

448
00:22:00,919 --> 00:22:03,547
and they're killing God's 
people every time they do it,

449
00:22:03,547 --> 00:22:05,313
yeah, they're in the pulpit preaching

450
00:22:05,313 --> 00:22:07,231
and they may call themselves a preacher,

451
00:22:07,231 --> 00:22:09,175
but are they a preacher?

452
00:22:09,175 --> 00:22:11,685
Well, God hasn't made them one.

453
00:22:11,685 --> 00:22:13,274
So that's the issue.

454
00:22:13,274 --> 00:22:15,033
Somebody can say they're merciful

455
00:22:15,033 --> 00:22:17,639
or somebody could say 
that they have a gift to lead.

456
00:22:17,639 --> 00:22:20,377
We can say all sorts of things,

457
00:22:20,377 --> 00:22:23,907
but the real proof is that when you seek

458
00:22:23,907 --> 00:22:29,885
to use that spiritual gift in 
the context of God's people,

459
00:22:29,885 --> 00:22:32,327
does God actually energize that?

460
00:22:32,327 --> 00:22:34,330
Does God use that so that God's people

461
00:22:34,330 --> 00:22:36,595
can say yes?

462
00:22:36,595 --> 00:22:39,217
Somebody can say my gift is mercy

463
00:22:39,217 --> 00:22:42,571
or I'm a comforter, I'm an encourager.

464
00:22:42,571 --> 00:22:44,541
But you go try to encourage people

465
00:22:44,541 --> 00:22:49,997
and they feel devastated by you.

466
00:22:49,997 --> 00:22:52,725
I really believe my wife has that gift

467
00:22:52,725 --> 00:22:56,655
because people say that 
after they talk to her.

468
00:22:56,655 --> 00:22:59,600
People don't typically 
say I have that gift

469
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,255
and I probably would agree.

470
00:23:02,255 --> 00:23:03,681
I recognize.

471
00:23:03,681 --> 00:23:05,042
Now I have different ones,

472
00:23:05,042 --> 00:23:07,394
but that would not be the primary one

473
00:23:07,394 --> 00:23:10,228
or even one maybe.

474
00:23:10,228 --> 00:23:12,480
James: Sometimes you need to be devastated

475
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:13,939
to be encouraged.

476
00:23:13,939 --> 00:23:15,481
Tim: Right. Right.

477
00:23:15,481 --> 00:23:18,537
Sometimes people need my approach

478
00:23:18,537 --> 00:23:21,268
and maybe even more often,

479
00:23:21,268 --> 00:23:23,369
they need Ruby's approach.

480
00:23:23,369 --> 00:23:28,423
But you know, I'm aware

481
00:23:28,423 --> 00:23:31,953
that when I teach and preach,

482
00:23:31,953 --> 00:23:34,305
people are helped.

483
00:23:34,305 --> 00:23:37,187
I'm also aware that when something

484
00:23:37,187 --> 00:23:40,654
needs to be dealt with really delicately,

485
00:23:40,654 --> 00:23:43,477
I'm not the guy with the gentleness

486
00:23:43,477 --> 00:23:47,122
to pull that off.

487
00:23:47,122 --> 00:23:48,626
And I will defer to my wife.

488
00:23:48,626 --> 00:23:52,065
There are times when 
getting counsel from Ruby

489
00:23:52,065 --> 00:23:54,643
about how to handle a 
matter beforehand is helpful

490
00:23:54,643 --> 00:23:58,218
because it's like sometimes it 
just doesn't register with me.

491
00:23:58,218 --> 00:23:59,666
Obviously, it's not a gift

492
00:23:59,666 --> 00:24:04,734
if it doesn't even register 
with me how to do that.

493
00:24:04,734 --> 00:24:11,828
I tend to be blunt and to the point.

494
00:24:11,828 --> 00:24:13,557
Anyway, we know what our gifts are

495
00:24:13,557 --> 00:24:16,203
because when we exercise them...
(incomplete thought).

496
00:24:16,203 --> 00:24:19,830
So I think that that's key.

497
00:24:19,830 --> 00:24:22,797
You guys know this, as we've sought

498
00:24:22,797 --> 00:24:24,846
to test people as far as

499
00:24:24,846 --> 00:24:27,245
their preaching and teaching abilities,

500
00:24:27,245 --> 00:24:29,784
you've seen us sort 
through different people.

501
00:24:29,784 --> 00:24:32,041
You yourselves have sat there

502
00:24:32,041 --> 00:24:34,077
and you've been part of the body

503
00:24:34,077 --> 00:24:37,126
as we've sought to listen and evaluate.

504
00:24:37,126 --> 00:24:38,486
(incomplete thought)

505
00:24:38,486 --> 00:24:40,361
Teaching and preaching is prominent

506
00:24:40,361 --> 00:24:43,064
because it happens in 
the capacity that it does

507
00:24:43,064 --> 00:24:45,600
where you have an 
individual stand before others

508
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,571
and seek to proclaim 
the truth of God's Word.

509
00:24:49,571 --> 00:24:53,173
But just as much when you have gifts

510
00:24:53,173 --> 00:24:56,059
of encouragement or mercy

511
00:24:56,059 --> 00:25:07,273
or leadership, serving gifts.

512
00:25:07,273 --> 00:25:09,347
So anything else on that?