1 00:00:00,328 --> 00:00:02,289 Could you describe a time in your life 2 00:00:02,289 --> 00:00:04,323 in which the Lord disciplined you? 3 00:00:04,323 --> 00:00:05,833 And you look back on that time 4 00:00:05,833 --> 00:00:08,138 with utter thankfulness for the fruit 5 00:00:08,138 --> 00:00:10,018 it yielded in your life? 6 00:00:10,018 --> 00:00:12,254 Mack: Well, the one thing that comes to my mind 7 00:00:12,254 --> 00:00:14,954 is what I kind of alluded to earlier. 8 00:00:14,954 --> 00:00:19,247 In about 1990, 9 00:00:19,247 --> 00:00:21,925 the church we were in had a split - 10 00:00:21,925 --> 00:00:23,941 a big division - 11 00:00:23,941 --> 00:00:28,166 and I was so discouraged in it. 12 00:00:28,166 --> 00:00:30,461 I was one of the pastors. 13 00:00:30,461 --> 00:00:33,600 And I was so discouraged in that experience 14 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:35,349 that I withdrew. 15 00:00:35,349 --> 00:00:41,117 I did not take a stand of confronting people 16 00:00:41,117 --> 00:00:43,020 in a right way, in a loving way, 17 00:00:43,020 --> 00:00:44,595 but still confronting. 18 00:00:44,595 --> 00:00:46,791 I didn't know what to do. 19 00:00:46,791 --> 00:00:48,992 I was afraid. 20 00:00:48,992 --> 00:00:51,178 I had the fear of man, 21 00:00:51,178 --> 00:00:53,038 so I didn't respond right. 22 00:00:53,045 --> 00:00:57,528 And it caused me to move in discouragement. 23 00:00:57,528 --> 00:01:02,085 And I didn't realize at the time - 24 00:01:02,085 --> 00:01:05,098 I honestly didn't - 25 00:01:05,098 --> 00:01:09,487 but I think for ten years, 26 00:01:09,487 --> 00:01:13,678 the Lord kind of let that wilderness experience - 27 00:01:13,678 --> 00:01:16,178 I wasn't pastoring. 28 00:01:16,178 --> 00:01:18,479 We weren't even settled really. 29 00:01:18,479 --> 00:01:20,306 I worked. 30 00:01:20,306 --> 00:01:25,254 We had twins come along in 1992. 31 00:01:25,254 --> 00:01:27,091 And it was a very difficult time, 32 00:01:27,091 --> 00:01:29,889 because I couldn't get any clear direction. 33 00:01:29,889 --> 00:01:32,135 What does God want of me? 34 00:01:32,135 --> 00:01:35,249 And it was a refining time 35 00:01:35,249 --> 00:01:38,569 of loving discipline. 36 00:01:38,569 --> 00:01:43,193 And I don't fully know why it took ten years. 37 00:01:43,193 --> 00:01:44,901 Maybe it wasn't even ten years, 38 00:01:44,901 --> 00:01:48,505 but that was a time I was truly disciplined by the Lord. 39 00:01:48,505 --> 00:01:51,217 Discipline is loving correction 40 00:01:51,217 --> 00:01:52,585 to make us more fruitful. 41 00:01:52,585 --> 00:01:54,863 It's not punishment, right? 42 00:01:54,863 --> 00:01:59,899 So, I learned huge lessons 43 00:01:59,899 --> 00:02:03,029 in retrospect that I should have done this 44 00:02:03,029 --> 00:02:04,690 as a pastor. 45 00:02:04,690 --> 00:02:06,205 If I would have done this, 46 00:02:06,205 --> 00:02:09,235 I would have protected those believers more. 47 00:02:09,235 --> 00:02:12,296 If I had been courageous to say, 48 00:02:12,296 --> 00:02:14,088 "Brother, I disagree, 49 00:02:14,088 --> 00:02:16,610 and what you're doing is wrong 50 00:02:16,610 --> 00:02:18,500 because it's affecting others 51 00:02:18,500 --> 00:02:20,162 and you're being selfish in this." 52 00:02:20,162 --> 00:02:24,156 Saying things like that when I should have, 53 00:02:24,156 --> 00:02:27,321 but I didn't have the courage to, 54 00:02:27,321 --> 00:02:29,869 I learned so much through that 55 00:02:29,869 --> 00:02:33,246 as a discipline from the Lord. 56 00:02:33,246 --> 00:02:37,170 And it's borne fruit in my life 57 00:02:37,170 --> 00:02:40,410 to take a stand when I need to; 58 00:02:40,410 --> 00:02:43,745 to see truth is on trial here, 59 00:02:43,745 --> 00:02:47,575 and people are going to be affected by this 60 00:02:47,575 --> 00:02:52,129 if I don't respond in love, 61 00:02:52,129 --> 00:02:54,189 but still respond, 62 00:02:54,189 --> 00:02:57,100 so I've got to. 63 00:02:57,100 --> 00:03:00,094 And that was a big hard discipline, 64 00:03:00,094 --> 00:03:02,814 but that's the biggest one I can remember 65 00:03:02,814 --> 00:03:04,185 in my own life. 66 00:03:04,185 --> 00:03:06,473 Now, for the present, 67 00:03:06,473 --> 00:03:09,425 discipline is not joyful. 68 00:03:09,425 --> 00:03:10,838 It's grievous. 69 00:03:10,838 --> 00:03:12,775 It's hard to go through it. 70 00:03:12,775 --> 00:03:15,993 But, it's John 15 - 71 00:03:15,993 --> 00:03:19,655 He disciplines and prunes us 72 00:03:19,655 --> 00:03:21,668 because we are bearing fruit. 73 00:03:21,668 --> 00:03:24,096 Then we'll bear more fruit. 74 00:03:24,096 --> 00:03:26,336 James: So after that season of ten years, 75 00:03:26,336 --> 00:03:28,426 is that when you ended up back in Denton 76 00:03:28,426 --> 00:03:31,099 and the church started up again? 77 00:03:31,099 --> 00:03:32,812 Mack: Well, not the same church, 78 00:03:32,812 --> 00:03:36,560 but yes, we moved back to Denton in 1998. 79 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,930 So it wasn't a full ten years, 80 00:03:40,930 --> 00:03:44,187 but it seemed like an eternity almost. 81 00:03:44,187 --> 00:03:47,594 So we came back because 82 00:03:47,594 --> 00:03:51,120 what came to me clearly was 83 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,321 it was like God had shown me in my heart, 84 00:03:54,321 --> 00:03:57,583 I left where I was 85 00:03:57,583 --> 00:04:01,496 out of discouragement without direction 86 00:04:01,496 --> 00:04:04,890 to go to something positive 87 00:04:04,890 --> 00:04:07,301 and clear and specific. 88 00:04:07,301 --> 00:04:09,980 And so, it's always wrong 89 00:04:09,980 --> 00:04:13,285 to make decisions and choices 90 00:04:13,285 --> 00:04:14,760 out of discouragement. 91 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,455 You'll almost always make a mistake. 92 00:04:18,455 --> 00:04:20,430 It's like marrying on the rebound 93 00:04:20,430 --> 00:04:21,900 four months later, 94 00:04:21,900 --> 00:04:22,902 and you realize, 95 00:04:22,902 --> 00:04:24,661 oh man, what did I do? 96 00:04:24,661 --> 00:04:26,164 You know people who do that. 97 00:04:26,164 --> 00:04:29,381 So we came back to Denton in 1998. 98 00:04:29,381 --> 00:04:35,680 (Incomplete thought) 99 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,941 I truly had matured 100 00:04:38,941 --> 00:04:42,724 I honestly feel like. 101 00:04:42,724 --> 00:04:49,717 And I had been preaching since 1975, 102 00:04:49,717 --> 00:04:56,993 and now it was '98. 103 00:04:56,993 --> 00:05:01,246 I honestly believe I was now 104 00:05:01,246 --> 00:05:02,994 prepared enough to truly preach 105 00:05:02,994 --> 00:05:05,237 and help somebody. 106 00:05:05,237 --> 00:05:08,796 I mean, I don't know how to say it any more than that. 107 00:05:08,796 --> 00:05:10,991 My spirit had matured. 108 00:05:10,991 --> 00:05:12,928 God had developed patience in me. 109 00:05:12,928 --> 00:05:14,847 He had given me a pastor's heart. 110 00:05:14,847 --> 00:05:17,436 He let me learn how to view issues 111 00:05:17,436 --> 00:05:19,383 in a right and wrong way. 112 00:05:19,383 --> 00:05:23,397 How to give answers about assurance of salvation when somebody comes. 113 00:05:23,397 --> 00:05:25,564 How to help them analyze it. 114 00:05:25,564 --> 00:05:33,428 He gave me a pastor's heart. 115 00:05:33,428 --> 00:05:35,988 But if I hadn't been through what I'd gone through 116 00:05:35,988 --> 00:05:38,122 in those years in the 1990's, 117 00:05:38,122 --> 00:05:40,942 I wouldn't have been near as equipped. 118 00:05:40,942 --> 00:05:49,036 So I praise God now for the fruit of it. 119 00:05:49,036 --> 00:05:51,302 I wouldn't want to go through it again. 120 00:05:51,302 --> 00:05:56,411 It's like open heart surgery. 121 00:05:56,411 --> 00:05:58,429 Praise God for that surgery! 122 00:05:58,429 --> 00:06:01,829 Lord, may it never be again. 123 00:06:01,829 --> 00:06:03,557 But when you can have it, 124 00:06:03,557 --> 00:06:06,882 you've got to have it to save your life. 125 00:06:06,882 --> 00:06:08,460 You're thankful for it 126 00:06:08,460 --> 00:06:11,822 and you're thankful for the surgeon.