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What is another concern or fear

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you might have for this generation

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of young believers that is coming up?

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Jesse: Another concern that I have

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for this generation coming up

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is what I call the eclipsing 
of the Gospel;

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the eclipsing of Jesus Christ.

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Meaning, whether it's the individual

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or the church finding its identity,

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its hope, its joy, its fellowship,

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its unity in something other than

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Jesus Christ and the Gospel.

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And it's a very subtle shift

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that happens without many people

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noticing that it happens.

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So often, so many people will come

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to the church,

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and they'll begin to discuss with them

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about they're looking for a church.

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And so often, brother, 
there are so many things

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people are looking for in the church -

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these byproducts of the Gospel;

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these byproducts of Jesus Christ,

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which are good things,

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but they become the source

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of their identity,

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they become the source 
of their fellowship;

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they're what they're 
looking for in a church,

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and they don't ask questions 
about Jesus Christ or the Gospel,

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and that's a great concern.

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James: Maybe you could 
give some examples there.

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What are things you've seen people

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looking for too much

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instead of the essentials of the Gospel?

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Jesse: I'll start with this.

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How about the whole 
family integration thought?

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Just this last week,

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a couple of young people 
came into the church,

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seemed like passionate,

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excited people.

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And the very first comments and questions

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were about family integration,

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family worship.

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Brother, our church worships 
together in that sense.

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And my home - we practice family worship.

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But when those things become

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the mark and identity of a church,

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or the mark and identity of the believer,

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and the evidence you can see

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that this is happening

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is this is what you talk about most.

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This is what you're passionate about most.

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And this is how you base your fellowship,

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even within the church -

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those who affirm you in these truths,

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those who practice in conscience

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the same things that you do

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whether it's homeschooling

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or how you do family worship.

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And the moment those things

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become the foundation of our relationship

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or the identity of the church,

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and Christ is no longer that foundation,

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inevitably, it will crumble.

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Question: What are the biggest dangers

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confronting the church today?

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The reformed church specifically?

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Jesse: It's kind of getting back to that

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whole eclipsing of Jesus Christ.

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And I'm going to preach on this here

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on Saturday.

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A great concern I have,

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especially in reformed circles:

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all genuine Christians love God,

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they love truth, they love doctrine.

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But in reformed circles,

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it's like we're known for our doctrine.

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Those are the doctrinally 
focused, sound people.

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We study through Revelation 2 -

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the letter to the church at Ephesus.

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And if you've ever read 
what Jesus commends

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about that church,

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they're a doctrinally sound church.

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They toil in truth.

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They defend truth.

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They expose false teachers.

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They can't stand evil.

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They can't stand the Nicolaitans

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and they're commended for all of that,

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but then Jesus says to them,

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"But I have this against you,

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you've left your first love."

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Now, you might say,

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well, that was a love for Jesus Christ

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and I would agree with you.

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But here's the concern I have:

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I think our love for Jesus Christ

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is most manifested for its true sense

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in our love for His people.

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In other words, I love Jesus.

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Well, how do I know I love Jesus?

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Well, it's evident in the way that I love

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and treat His people, the church.

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And what that church was warned about

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is what we might call loveless orthodoxy.

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So the concern I have 
for the reformed church

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is that we can have all of 
our doctrinal positions right;

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we can debate them left and right,

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but we lack love -

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a love for God and a love for His people.

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And it's a subtle shift again.

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People will say how can I have

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all my doctrine right and still struggle?

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And throughout the Bible, we see examples

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of churches that have 
their doctrine right,

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but they struggle with love towards God

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and love towards the church.

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Paul says in 1 Corinthians 13,

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if I have all understanding,

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all knowledge, but I have not love...

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So the notion is I can have

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some of these things

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and be lacking in love.

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And I think one of the 
things we need to do

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in the reformed church

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is mark loveless orthodoxy

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as sin that needs to be repented of.

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It's not something, oh, 
we should do better in.

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It's sin to be repented of.

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The warning Jesus gave to that church

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is, "Repent and return,

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or I'll take away your lampstand."

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It's as serious as it gets.

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So this eclipsing of Jesus Christ,

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finding identity in something 
other than Christ,

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or believing we're good because
we have our doctrine right,

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but if we lack love,

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we're nothing.

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Here's what I struggle with 
so much in this, James,

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is that when I preach on this subject -

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and I've preached on it, I think,

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probably ten times between men's meetings

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and the service and different things -

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ten times in the last year.

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And I keep getting accused of:

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well, you just are minimizing doctrine.

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You're saying that parts of 
God's Word are not important.

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And I'm like, listen, I've given my life

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to the study and preaching 
and teaching of doctrine.

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But I've come to realize by God's grace,

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you can be right in your doctrine

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and absolutely wrong.

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And I don't think people realize that.

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You can have the right doctrine

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and be nothing.

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And so what's the mark of maturity?

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In the reformed circle?

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Having all your doctrine right.

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What's the mark of maturity in Scripture?

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Love.

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Love.

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We begin to look at people as positions,

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where our conversations are not anymore:

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"how are you doing, brother?"

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"What's going on at your workplace?"

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"How is your marriage going?"

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It is, "where are you 
at in this position?"

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And brother, they're not people anymore.

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We're just viewing people as positions

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to win over to my camp.

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Be careful.

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Be careful.

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One of the sermons I preached on

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was Romans 14 in this.

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And I'll mention it some in the sermon,

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because this is not only, James,

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in the doctrines that we hold to,

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but it's also in the living out

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of our doctrines and convictions.

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And what I find so interesting 
about Romans 14 -

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if you say what does Romans 14 about?

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Oh, it's about Christian 
liberty and conscience.

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No, it's not.

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It's about living out love in the middle

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of a church that has differences.

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And it deals with Christian 
liberty and conscience,

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but how do you deal with someone

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who has a different understanding?

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You know what I love about Romans 14

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more than anything?

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Is Paul acknowledges:

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this brother has it wrong.

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And he doesn't really correct him.

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His greater concern is this:

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Are we welcoming one another?

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Now think of that.

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This brother - he says he has 
a wrong understanding.

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He is weak in faith,

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and it's leading him to make decisions

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that are wrong.

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And Paul acknowledges it.

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But he doesn't say:

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Go over there and correct your 
brother to the right doctrine.

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He says: Are you welcoming him?

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Are you loving him

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as Christ has welcomed you?

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And that doesn't mean 
we're indifferent to doctrine

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or we don't talk about it.

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But there's a spirit 
that if it's not there

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you can have all the right 
doctrine in the world

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and it means nothing.

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So, Lord, help us, brother.

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Question: After studying and preaching

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00:08:45,086 --> 00:08:47,130
your recent series on, "Maintaining Unity

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00:08:47,130 --> 00:08:48,709
in the Midst of Diversity,"

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what do you look back on

217
00:08:50,378 --> 00:08:52,437
and say most impacted you

218
00:08:52,437 --> 00:08:54,170
from your studies?

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Jesse: I think the most impactful study

220
00:08:56,749 --> 00:09:00,884
that I got from the study there personally

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was I thought I was a 
much more loving person.

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And I realized that the way Paul

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understands love is that we should not

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measure our love based on

225
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how we get along and respond with those

226
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who agree with us,

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but rather it's with those who disagree

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or offend us.

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So if we surround ourselves with people

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who just affirm us,

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and who agree on every point of doctrine,

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hold to all the same convictions,

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and have the same passions that we do,

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and we sit around and 
just affirm each other,

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you might look at that and say,

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look how loving we are.

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And I'm not questioning whether that's

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genuine love or not.

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What I'm saying is though

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the true reality or depth, you could say,

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of your love for people,

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00:09:52,946 --> 00:09:55,243
is measured in how you respond

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with those who do not agree;

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with those who hold 
to different convictions;

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with those who have offended you.

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It is how you respond 
in those circumstances

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and those situations that reveals

248
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the depth of our love.

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And I'll go further than that.

250
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I think it reveals the depth 
of our love for Jesus.

251
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I think sometimes we can believe,

252
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oh, I love Jesus, it's just 
these immature Christians

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who don't see it the way I do -

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they I struggle with.

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But as I read through Scripture,

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I think of 1 John 3.

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How can you love God

258
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whom you have not seen

259
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when you can't even love your brother

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who you do see?

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In other words, this:

262
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Our love for Christ is always displayed

263
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in our love for the church;

264
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in our love for others.

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So our vertical love is always 
manifested horizontally.

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Or you could say the depth of it.

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And again, to take what Paul said then,

268
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and the reality of your love horizontally

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is not with those who agree.

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It's with those who disagree.

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So, I went into that thinking,

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I'm a pretty loving guy.

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And I walked away from it realizing,

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I have so much room to grow in my love

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as I look how I respond to those

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who disagree or offend me.

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Another thing I learned from that

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is I've watched people

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when they have disagreements

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maybe in doctrine or convictions

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or how they live out their convictions -

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how they begin to treat

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other genuine Christians, other believers.

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And it's almost like they create subgroups

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or you might say,

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second-class Christians.

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And I want to remind us all

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that there are no second-class Christians.

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That Jesus Christ identifies

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with the genuine believer who holds

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to the lowest view of doctrine;

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the struggling Christian.

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He identifies with them.

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And I'm really struggling in my own life

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and in the church and the church abroad

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with the response I'm seeing

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where people will say things like this:

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"Yes, we agree in the Gospel

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and in Jesus Christ,

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but in this other area of doctrine,

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we don't see eye-to-eye,

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and therefore I can't 
fellowship with you anymore."

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And that's that eclipsing of Jesus again.

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Brother, if you agree in Jesus Christ

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and the Gospel,

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I'm not minimizing all the other doctrines

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in the Bible - they're important;

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they're God's Word -

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but we have so much in common

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in Christ and the Gospel,

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and then you begin to maximize

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these other areas.

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I struggle to even use the term, 
because people get so angry at me.

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Non-salvific doctrine.

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But listen, there are other doctrines

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that you can be wrong 
in and still be saved.

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I think Dr. Mohler did a great job

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in helping in this.

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He called it spiritual triage.

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And he wrote, listen, we don't treat

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a skinned knee like we do

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a gunshot wound to the chest.

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And we have to have a doctrinal triage

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at some level, so that if you and I

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can't agree on some level of eschatology,

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but we see eye-to-eye on Jesus Christ,

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justified by grace through faith alone,

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you're my brother.

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We can be in fellowship.

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We may not be able to pastor together,

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but we can be in fellowship,

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and I need to treat you with the same love

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that I would treat anybody else.

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And brother, I'm not seeing that.

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I'm seeing divisions after 
divisions after divisions.

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And it's concerning.

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James: And why do you 
think the devil wants that?

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Jesse: Well, when the church is divided,

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something other than Jesus becomes

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the basis of our unity.

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Something other than Jesus becomes

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the basis of our fellowship.

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And the moment that happens

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and it's not Christ as the 
foundation anymore,

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the inevitability is we crumble.