1 00:00:05,107 --> 00:00:06,495 "Hello, Pastor Tim. 2 00:00:06,495 --> 00:00:08,457 I'm a born again Christian and working on 3 00:00:08,457 --> 00:00:12,589 that close relationship with Jesus Christ. 4 00:00:12,589 --> 00:00:14,607 Your online videos have been a blessing. 5 00:00:14,607 --> 00:00:15,768 Here's my dilemma: 6 00:00:15,768 --> 00:00:18,297 I work in the marketing department 7 00:00:18,297 --> 00:00:22,826 of a hospital that is..." 8 00:00:22,826 --> 00:00:24,997 (I find this kind of confusing), 9 00:00:24,997 --> 00:00:27,457 "...in a hospital that is focused 10 00:00:27,457 --> 00:00:31,927 on the Gospel and Christianity. 11 00:00:31,927 --> 00:00:35,357 However, the base denomination 12 00:00:35,357 --> 00:00:39,149 of this hospital system is Catholic. 13 00:00:39,149 --> 00:00:40,687 Of course, we have people of 14 00:00:40,687 --> 00:00:43,165 all denominations and belief systems 15 00:00:43,165 --> 00:00:45,976 throughout our hospitals and clinics. 16 00:00:45,976 --> 00:00:48,486 In the last five years that I've worked here, 17 00:00:48,486 --> 00:00:50,788 we have never opened a meeting 18 00:00:50,788 --> 00:00:56,818 with a prayer to anyone other than God and Jesus. 19 00:00:56,818 --> 00:00:58,736 Our health services are directed 20 00:00:58,736 --> 00:01:00,217 by the manual: 21 00:01:00,217 --> 00:01:02,447 'Ethical and Religious Directives 22 00:01:02,447 --> 00:01:04,787 for Catholic Healthcare Services,' 23 00:01:04,787 --> 00:01:06,685 as set forth by the United States 24 00:01:06,685 --> 00:01:09,187 Conference of Catholic Bishops. 25 00:01:09,187 --> 00:01:12,294 Now, I don't put any faith 26 00:01:12,294 --> 00:01:13,695 into what the Catholic church 27 00:01:13,695 --> 00:01:15,606 teaches or instructs, 28 00:01:15,606 --> 00:01:17,286 such as praying to Mary, saints, 29 00:01:17,286 --> 00:01:19,384 confessions through priests, etc. 30 00:01:19,384 --> 00:01:22,298 What is your opinion and recommendation 31 00:01:22,298 --> 00:01:24,854 of me continuing to work in this environment? 32 00:01:24,854 --> 00:01:27,206 Thank you for your opinion. 33 00:01:27,206 --> 00:01:29,837 Alissa." 34 00:01:29,837 --> 00:01:35,725 You know, I find it to be a fairly frequent question, 35 00:01:35,725 --> 00:01:38,377 especially when you're in a church 36 00:01:38,377 --> 00:01:43,437 where you're seeing some new converts. 37 00:01:43,437 --> 00:01:46,765 When we're getting new people 38 00:01:46,765 --> 00:01:48,887 saved in the church, 39 00:01:48,887 --> 00:01:51,627 this can be a fairly regular thing. 40 00:01:51,627 --> 00:01:54,235 And the truth is when we were back at Fatty's, 41 00:01:54,235 --> 00:01:57,136 I remember (meeting at the restaurant) - 42 00:01:57,136 --> 00:01:59,736 I remember when Charles Leiter came down here. 43 00:01:59,736 --> 00:02:01,825 He told me that he was amazed 44 00:02:01,825 --> 00:02:04,605 because he was asking people 45 00:02:04,605 --> 00:02:06,085 about their testimonies, 46 00:02:06,085 --> 00:02:09,787 and he was just amazed 47 00:02:09,787 --> 00:02:11,997 at how many of the people had been saved 48 00:02:11,997 --> 00:02:13,797 in the last year. 49 00:02:13,797 --> 00:02:17,317 In fact, I don't know if anybody remembers 50 00:02:17,317 --> 00:02:18,706 that may have been there 51 00:02:18,706 --> 00:02:21,788 the very first Fellowship Conference 52 00:02:21,788 --> 00:02:23,926 when it was held in Norman, Oklahoma. 53 00:02:23,926 --> 00:02:27,426 Charles actually asked everybody there 54 00:02:27,426 --> 00:02:30,255 to raise their hands if they'd been saved 55 00:02:30,255 --> 00:02:31,867 in the previous twelve months, 56 00:02:31,867 --> 00:02:34,166 and it was amazing how many hands went up. 57 00:02:34,166 --> 00:02:37,537 When you have that many new believers, 58 00:02:37,537 --> 00:02:40,244 you tend to run into a lot of these questions 59 00:02:40,244 --> 00:02:44,595 about: okay, God saved me; 60 00:02:44,595 --> 00:02:48,668 now I'm having some problems 61 00:02:48,668 --> 00:02:53,446 trying to figure out whether my work situation is right; 62 00:02:53,446 --> 00:02:56,028 whether this is where I should stay. 63 00:02:56,028 --> 00:03:01,155 Now, some are black and white. 64 00:03:01,155 --> 00:03:08,416 It's a no-brainer. 65 00:03:08,416 --> 00:03:11,757 Give me some examples 66 00:03:11,757 --> 00:03:14,505 of some that are no-brainers. 67 00:03:14,505 --> 00:03:15,608 (from the room) 68 00:03:15,608 --> 00:03:17,187 Working in an abortion clinic. 69 00:03:17,187 --> 00:03:19,526 Tim: You work in an abortion clinic. 70 00:03:19,526 --> 00:03:20,857 You're an abortion doctor. 71 00:03:20,857 --> 00:03:22,317 You're performing abortions. 72 00:03:22,317 --> 00:03:24,945 You get saved. No-brainer. 73 00:03:24,945 --> 00:03:28,297 You don't kill children. 74 00:03:28,297 --> 00:03:30,555 You're Hector Martinez. 75 00:03:30,555 --> 00:03:34,138 You're working on the border for the cartel. 76 00:03:34,138 --> 00:03:35,757 You get saved. 77 00:03:35,757 --> 00:03:40,178 Yeah, you stop shooting people, right? 78 00:03:40,178 --> 00:03:42,906 What are some other no-brainers? 79 00:03:42,906 --> 00:03:48,977 I mean, I know we've had 80 00:03:48,977 --> 00:03:51,765 a young lady working for a gentlemen's club - 81 00:03:51,765 --> 00:03:54,356 kind of a no-brainer. 82 00:03:54,356 --> 00:03:59,878 What are some maybe other examples? 83 00:03:59,878 --> 00:04:01,616 (unintelligible) 84 00:04:01,616 --> 00:04:07,818 Well, I'm not going to put that one in the grey area. 85 00:04:07,818 --> 00:04:10,837 Being a bartender. 86 00:04:10,837 --> 00:04:13,388 Now you may think that's a no-brainer. 87 00:04:13,388 --> 00:04:16,426 But I want to put it in the grey area 88 00:04:16,426 --> 00:04:22,036 because it's not exactly like these. 89 00:04:22,036 --> 00:04:25,426 How about anybody know Richard Bennett? 90 00:04:25,426 --> 00:04:27,065 He was a Catholic priest. 91 00:04:27,065 --> 00:04:28,246 He got saved. 92 00:04:28,246 --> 00:04:32,377 He stopped being a Catholic priest. 93 00:04:32,377 --> 00:04:34,335 Here's the thing about all those examples 94 00:04:34,335 --> 00:04:36,956 when I say they're no-brainers. 95 00:04:36,956 --> 00:04:39,646 The individual themselves 96 00:04:39,646 --> 00:04:42,685 were being required to sin 97 00:04:42,685 --> 00:04:45,855 to do what they did. 98 00:04:45,855 --> 00:04:50,275 When you're a bartender, 99 00:04:50,275 --> 00:04:52,714 that's different. 100 00:04:52,714 --> 00:04:56,337 You're mixing drinks. 101 00:04:56,337 --> 00:04:59,837 Now, if you actually have a conviction 102 00:04:59,837 --> 00:05:03,045 that alcohol is absolutely forbidden in Scripture, 103 00:05:03,045 --> 00:05:05,535 you may say, 104 00:05:05,535 --> 00:05:08,367 well, I believe he's sinning. 105 00:05:08,367 --> 00:05:11,626 Now, I don't think that's what Scripture teaches 106 00:05:11,626 --> 00:05:14,675 and I'm not trying to advocate you all 107 00:05:14,675 --> 00:05:18,996 run out and experiment. 108 00:05:18,996 --> 00:05:22,222 But I don't think that that necessarily 109 00:05:22,222 --> 00:05:25,403 in and of itself is causing the person 110 00:05:25,403 --> 00:05:33,612 to sin just in the way of mixing drinks. 111 00:05:33,612 --> 00:05:35,743 Now, it may bring up another question: 112 00:05:35,743 --> 00:05:37,803 Am I causing other people to sin? 113 00:05:37,803 --> 00:05:39,654 And in causing other people to sin, 114 00:05:39,654 --> 00:05:43,883 is that bad? Am I doing bad? 115 00:05:43,883 --> 00:05:46,893 But you've got kind of the no-brainer 116 00:05:46,893 --> 00:05:51,122 where you are being required to sin. 117 00:05:51,122 --> 00:05:55,702 Now, I think even there, 118 00:05:55,702 --> 00:05:57,641 even if I'm being required to sin, 119 00:05:57,641 --> 00:06:00,179 I need to look at it and ask the question: 120 00:06:00,179 --> 00:06:02,603 is the very job itself by the nature of it 121 00:06:02,603 --> 00:06:03,826 requires me to sin? 122 00:06:03,826 --> 00:06:06,527 Obviously, that of a Catholic priest - yes, it does. 123 00:06:06,527 --> 00:06:08,543 Obviously if I'm involved in the cartel - 124 00:06:08,543 --> 00:06:09,412 yes, it does. 125 00:06:09,412 --> 00:06:11,562 Obviously, if I'm involved in abortion? 126 00:06:11,562 --> 00:06:28,382 Absolutely. 127 00:06:28,382 --> 00:06:33,913 But I may actually be doing a job 128 00:06:33,913 --> 00:06:38,452 where the job itself does not 129 00:06:38,452 --> 00:06:41,152 fundamentally require sin. 130 00:06:41,152 --> 00:06:45,193 Like, let's say a used car dealership. 131 00:06:45,193 --> 00:06:48,292 Let's say it's owned by a guy that's crooked, 132 00:06:48,292 --> 00:06:49,903 and if you work for him, 133 00:06:49,903 --> 00:06:51,882 you're going to take advantage of people 134 00:06:51,882 --> 00:06:53,563 and you're going to lie to people 135 00:06:53,563 --> 00:06:55,273 and you're going to tell them - 136 00:06:55,273 --> 00:06:57,111 James and I met with somebody today 137 00:06:57,111 --> 00:06:59,493 and it's like they basically told him 138 00:06:59,493 --> 00:07:04,992 a little old couple owned the van. 139 00:07:04,992 --> 00:07:07,701 Yeah, right. Used salesman. 140 00:07:07,701 --> 00:07:11,892 A little old lady that only drove it to church on Sundays. 141 00:07:11,892 --> 00:07:14,911 If I'm working for a used car dealership 142 00:07:14,911 --> 00:07:16,932 and I'm being expected to lie 143 00:07:16,932 --> 00:07:18,260 and cheat people, 144 00:07:18,260 --> 00:07:19,992 and suddenly I get saved, 145 00:07:19,992 --> 00:07:21,941 that job actually is actually a job 146 00:07:21,941 --> 00:07:26,883 that could be done honestly and faithfully. 147 00:07:26,883 --> 00:07:28,942 So you kind of have to differentiate 148 00:07:28,942 --> 00:07:32,061 when you're dealing with: 149 00:07:32,061 --> 00:07:35,272 should I quit the job? 150 00:07:35,272 --> 00:07:39,442 Ruby's brother was a classic example. 151 00:07:39,442 --> 00:07:44,444 He worked for a major shipping company - 152 00:07:44,444 --> 00:07:49,012 truck freight. 153 00:07:49,012 --> 00:07:52,332 These bill of ladings would come in 154 00:07:52,332 --> 00:07:54,722 with the shipments. 155 00:07:54,722 --> 00:07:56,723 And you know what they'd do? 156 00:07:56,723 --> 00:08:00,443 They would basically look on there and say, 157 00:08:00,443 --> 00:08:07,443 okay, we've got 46 stereos on these pallets. 158 00:08:07,443 --> 00:08:09,342 And they'd go through and count. 159 00:08:09,342 --> 00:08:12,192 And if they counted 48, 160 00:08:12,192 --> 00:08:15,331 we got us two stereos. 161 00:08:15,331 --> 00:08:16,860 Who can ever account for them? 162 00:08:16,860 --> 00:08:18,440 The paperwork says 46. 163 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:20,222 And that kind of stuff would happen 164 00:08:20,222 --> 00:08:21,994 on a regular basis. 165 00:08:21,994 --> 00:08:24,783 Rick said they had lots of stuff. 166 00:08:24,783 --> 00:08:26,852 In fact, often when they're shipping, 167 00:08:26,852 --> 00:08:30,831 it seems like they overship. 168 00:08:30,831 --> 00:08:32,885 And so these guys, 169 00:08:32,885 --> 00:08:36,631 they skimmed off all the extra, 170 00:08:36,631 --> 00:08:38,652 all the time. 171 00:08:38,652 --> 00:08:42,273 Rick got saved. 172 00:08:42,273 --> 00:08:45,721 Now he wasn't being specifically asked to do it. 173 00:08:45,721 --> 00:08:49,792 But see, these are the kinds of things we have to ask. 174 00:08:49,792 --> 00:08:52,503 Is the job requiring me to sin? 175 00:08:52,503 --> 00:08:53,913 Is the nature of the job 176 00:08:53,913 --> 00:08:57,332 that I can't do this job without sinning 177 00:08:57,332 --> 00:09:00,529 because it's like an abortion doctor - 178 00:09:00,529 --> 00:09:02,433 you can't do the job without sinning. 179 00:09:02,433 --> 00:09:04,242 Obviously, that's a no-brainer. 180 00:09:04,242 --> 00:09:07,151 But then you have to kind of look at: 181 00:09:07,151 --> 00:09:13,271 okay, is this a job that causes 182 00:09:13,271 --> 00:09:15,872 other people to sin? 183 00:09:15,872 --> 00:09:18,001 Now what are some examples of jobs 184 00:09:18,001 --> 00:09:19,893 that could cause other people to sin? 185 00:09:19,893 --> 00:09:21,079 Perhaps the bartender. 186 00:09:21,079 --> 00:09:25,172 Anybody got any others? 187 00:09:25,172 --> 00:09:27,603 I mean we've had a young lady 188 00:09:27,603 --> 00:09:30,003 in our own church that has wrestled 189 00:09:30,003 --> 00:09:31,642 with being a pharmacist 190 00:09:31,642 --> 00:09:36,332 because pharmacists are supposed to dispense 191 00:09:36,332 --> 00:09:42,362 abortive-type birth control 192 00:09:42,362 --> 00:09:44,803 and she won't do it. 193 00:09:44,803 --> 00:09:47,582 So there's something. 194 00:09:47,582 --> 00:09:49,464 You know one that's often a big one 195 00:09:49,464 --> 00:09:52,064 that people wrestle with is being a soldier 196 00:09:52,064 --> 00:09:54,185 or perhaps being a police officer. 197 00:09:54,185 --> 00:09:56,362 Or, could you imagine being on a SWAT team? 198 00:09:56,362 --> 00:09:57,883 Something like that. 199 00:09:57,883 --> 00:10:00,193 And these are areas where people 200 00:10:00,193 --> 00:10:03,603 have to wrestle. 201 00:10:03,603 --> 00:10:05,421 I mean, if you got saved 202 00:10:05,421 --> 00:10:09,773 and you were the janitor in a casino, 203 00:10:09,773 --> 00:10:12,554 could you keep going? 204 00:10:12,554 --> 00:10:14,613 I mean, is there anything about that 205 00:10:14,613 --> 00:10:19,403 that in and of itself - 206 00:10:19,403 --> 00:10:21,294 could you do it? 207 00:10:21,294 --> 00:10:26,014 Or how about if you're a biology teacher 208 00:10:26,014 --> 00:10:28,804 and they are absolutely expecting you 209 00:10:28,804 --> 00:10:30,465 to teach evolution 210 00:10:30,465 --> 00:10:33,203 and suddenly you get saved? 211 00:10:33,203 --> 00:10:36,476 Can you do it? 212 00:10:36,476 --> 00:10:40,599 See, these are the kind of questions. 213 00:10:40,599 --> 00:10:43,196 And another big one that comes up oftentimes 214 00:10:43,196 --> 00:10:45,451 is like David Gonzales. 215 00:10:45,451 --> 00:10:48,207 He told his work: 216 00:10:48,207 --> 00:10:50,087 Look, don't schedule me for Sundays. 217 00:10:50,087 --> 00:10:53,246 And whether you're a Sabbatarian or not 218 00:10:53,246 --> 00:10:55,207 there are Christians who say 219 00:10:55,207 --> 00:10:57,704 don't schedule me on Sundays. 220 00:10:57,704 --> 00:11:00,567 And some people are pretty adamant about it. 221 00:11:00,567 --> 00:11:04,826 Even when they interview. 222 00:11:04,826 --> 00:11:07,388 And then you get tested. 223 00:11:07,388 --> 00:11:10,338 They try to get you to work on Sunday. 224 00:11:10,338 --> 00:11:12,686 Whether it's a conviction or it's just that you 225 00:11:12,686 --> 00:11:13,647 want to be in church 226 00:11:13,647 --> 00:11:18,039 and you don't want to miss the meetings. 227 00:11:18,039 --> 00:11:19,846 So we have to ask ourselves this: 228 00:11:19,846 --> 00:11:23,435 Am I being required to sin all the time? 229 00:11:23,435 --> 00:11:25,077 Then I should leave. 230 00:11:25,077 --> 00:11:27,918 Am I not being required to sin all the time 231 00:11:27,918 --> 00:11:29,488 but perhaps by what I do, 232 00:11:29,488 --> 00:11:32,746 I encourage other people to sin? 233 00:11:32,746 --> 00:11:34,417 Can anybody think of a time 234 00:11:34,417 --> 00:11:36,547 when it would be okay to stay in a job 235 00:11:36,547 --> 00:11:40,148 that encourages other people to sin? 236 00:11:40,148 --> 00:11:41,735 (from the room) 237 00:11:41,735 --> 00:11:45,297 I'm not exactly sure, but sometimes I struggle with this. 238 00:11:45,297 --> 00:11:46,595 We're Microsoft 239 00:11:46,595 --> 00:11:48,667 and some of the products we make 240 00:11:48,667 --> 00:11:51,357 are benign like Office, 241 00:11:51,357 --> 00:11:53,378 but also we make things like XBox, 242 00:11:53,378 --> 00:11:55,787 and some kids get addicted to this thing. 243 00:11:55,787 --> 00:11:58,186 And I know some really bad things have happened 244 00:11:58,186 --> 00:12:01,176 around the XBox and being addicted to games, 245 00:12:01,176 --> 00:12:04,116 so sometimes I feel kind of convicted 246 00:12:04,116 --> 00:12:08,457 and I support different servers that support XBox 247 00:12:08,457 --> 00:12:12,096 and all these different things of that nature. 248 00:12:12,096 --> 00:12:16,115 So sometimes I struggle with that a little bit. 249 00:12:16,115 --> 00:12:17,656 Tim: It's understandable. 250 00:12:17,656 --> 00:12:20,386 Even Craig and I worked for a firm 251 00:12:20,386 --> 00:12:21,657 up in Michigan 252 00:12:21,657 --> 00:12:23,186 where we were basically dealing 253 00:12:23,186 --> 00:12:24,627 with spectator seating. 254 00:12:24,627 --> 00:12:27,376 Now, spectator seating you could say, 255 00:12:27,376 --> 00:12:28,966 yeah, could somebody go 256 00:12:28,966 --> 00:12:30,565 to Madison Square Garden 257 00:12:30,565 --> 00:12:32,688 and listen to a preacher preach? 258 00:12:32,688 --> 00:12:33,816 Well, they could. 259 00:12:33,816 --> 00:12:35,476 By and large, what are they doing? 260 00:12:35,476 --> 00:12:38,525 They're watching basketball games, they're watching hockey games, 261 00:12:38,525 --> 00:12:40,347 they're watching boxing matches. 262 00:12:40,347 --> 00:12:42,419 So is that bad? 263 00:12:42,419 --> 00:12:44,426 Well, it's like, here I'm throwing my life 264 00:12:44,426 --> 00:12:48,456 into designing these components 265 00:12:48,456 --> 00:12:51,967 for massive spectator facilities, 266 00:12:51,967 --> 00:12:56,398 and I wondered, is that the best thing 267 00:12:56,398 --> 00:13:00,577 to be throwing my life into? 268 00:13:00,577 --> 00:13:03,317 I was able to work. I was able to give from it. 269 00:13:03,317 --> 00:13:04,997 Is it possible that those things 270 00:13:04,997 --> 00:13:07,525 could be used for good purposes? 271 00:13:07,525 --> 00:13:09,347 Perhaps. 272 00:13:09,347 --> 00:13:13,115 Are people by and large wasting their lives away 273 00:13:13,115 --> 00:13:16,227 watching balls get put through hoops 274 00:13:16,227 --> 00:13:19,117 and pucks getting put in nets? 275 00:13:19,117 --> 00:13:24,609 On Judgment Day is it going to be worth anything? 276 00:13:24,609 --> 00:13:26,498 But I think we should conscientiously 277 00:13:26,498 --> 00:13:28,946 be exploring those things 278 00:13:28,946 --> 00:13:34,387 when it comes to our work. 279 00:13:34,387 --> 00:13:38,397 What happens is it's pretty often 280 00:13:38,397 --> 00:13:40,234 that we get faced with situations 281 00:13:40,234 --> 00:13:42,077 that test our convictions. 282 00:13:42,077 --> 00:13:43,356 Did you have your hand up? 283 00:13:43,356 --> 00:13:44,096 (from the room) 284 00:13:44,096 --> 00:13:46,127 I was just thinking about Daniel 285 00:13:46,127 --> 00:13:48,437 working for Nebuchadnezzar 286 00:13:48,437 --> 00:13:51,396 and Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. 287 00:13:51,396 --> 00:13:54,978 I don't know what exactly they were doing. 288 00:13:54,978 --> 00:13:56,786 Tim: They were counselors. 289 00:13:56,786 --> 00:14:09,507 They were basically brought into the wise men that counseled. 290 00:14:09,507 --> 00:14:14,456 But God specifically told them to go there. 291 00:14:14,456 --> 00:14:19,197 Basically in their good, you'll have good. 292 00:14:19,197 --> 00:14:22,756 And go there, plant, live. 293 00:14:22,756 --> 00:14:28,457 Bless them. 294 00:14:28,457 --> 00:14:30,287 I think the thing we have to ask 295 00:14:30,287 --> 00:14:32,586 is is there any crime? Is there any sin? 296 00:14:32,586 --> 00:14:35,057 Is there any immorality? 297 00:14:35,057 --> 00:14:38,029 I mean, I think, is there any false teaching? 298 00:14:38,029 --> 00:14:40,847 Am I expected to proclaim lies 299 00:14:40,847 --> 00:14:44,117 if I'm a teacher of any sort? 300 00:14:44,117 --> 00:14:46,548 What are the expectations? 301 00:14:46,548 --> 00:14:48,148 I can remember one time, 302 00:14:48,148 --> 00:14:56,008 we got the Madison Square Garden job. 303 00:14:56,008 --> 00:15:02,205 And this whole massive seating structure, 304 00:15:02,205 --> 00:15:04,317 the whole understructure - 305 00:15:04,317 --> 00:15:06,966 they didn't prime that properly. 306 00:15:06,966 --> 00:15:08,357 And they came in there 307 00:15:08,357 --> 00:15:10,177 and they sat that whole thing down. 308 00:15:10,177 --> 00:15:12,706 In most facilities it would not have been an issue. 309 00:15:12,706 --> 00:15:15,938 They set it down on the New York Rangers ice rink 310 00:15:15,938 --> 00:15:18,518 and all that moisture coming up, 311 00:15:18,518 --> 00:15:20,128 and it rusted the whole thing. 312 00:15:20,128 --> 00:15:22,286 And I remember sitting in a meeting 313 00:15:22,286 --> 00:15:25,265 in the firm I was in, a great big table, 314 00:15:25,265 --> 00:15:26,538 and all the engineers 315 00:15:26,538 --> 00:15:29,626 and all the big wigs from our company were in there 316 00:15:29,626 --> 00:15:31,856 because this was a major catastrophe. 317 00:15:31,856 --> 00:15:34,497 And I remember the vice- president of that company, 318 00:15:34,497 --> 00:15:38,505 he said: You (talking to all of us) - 319 00:15:38,505 --> 00:15:43,068 you will lie to them if they inquire 320 00:15:43,068 --> 00:15:46,005 or ask any questions about this. 321 00:15:46,005 --> 00:15:51,237 And I was there saying, uh-huh, 322 00:15:51,237 --> 00:15:54,408 I'm not going to lie. 323 00:15:54,408 --> 00:15:56,007 And I was thinking about it today 324 00:15:56,007 --> 00:15:58,838 as I was walking that I wasn't going to. 325 00:15:58,838 --> 00:16:03,609 And I did not challenge the vice-president right there. 326 00:16:03,609 --> 00:16:05,556 I wrote him. 327 00:16:05,556 --> 00:16:13,438 And I told him that his soul's in danger 328 00:16:13,438 --> 00:16:16,838 and he really needs to repent. 329 00:16:16,838 --> 00:16:20,686 But I wondered if I actually should have 330 00:16:20,686 --> 00:16:23,218 (incomplete thought). 331 00:16:23,218 --> 00:16:26,997 Because here's the thing, 332 00:16:26,997 --> 00:16:30,878 what are children of light called to do? 333 00:16:30,878 --> 00:16:34,806 I think this is an important point. 334 00:16:34,806 --> 00:16:36,247 What does Ephesians 5 say 335 00:16:36,247 --> 00:16:39,167 that children of light are supposed to do? 336 00:16:39,167 --> 00:16:42,189 Expose the works of darkness. 337 00:16:42,189 --> 00:16:43,718 And here's the thing, 338 00:16:43,718 --> 00:16:45,748 we want to be careful that we don't run 339 00:16:45,748 --> 00:16:48,147 from every situation out there. 340 00:16:48,147 --> 00:16:51,118 I think in a lot of situations, 341 00:16:51,118 --> 00:16:55,286 what we want to do is seek to be light. 342 00:16:55,286 --> 00:16:57,818 You know, my brother-in-law 343 00:16:57,818 --> 00:17:00,662 openly confronted the people. 344 00:17:00,662 --> 00:17:04,217 He sought to be light. 345 00:17:04,217 --> 00:17:06,665 (incomplete thought) 346 00:17:06,665 --> 00:17:09,498 We had a friend out at Community Baptist Church - 347 00:17:09,498 --> 00:17:11,337 he was a soldier. 348 00:17:11,337 --> 00:17:15,068 And this big auditorium full of people, 349 00:17:15,068 --> 00:17:18,427 and I think he said like a five-star general 350 00:17:18,427 --> 00:17:20,415 was up on the platform 351 00:17:20,415 --> 00:17:25,488 and he started by telling some crude joke. 352 00:17:25,488 --> 00:17:28,256 This brother from down there, 353 00:17:28,256 --> 00:17:32,047 he got up - he's a soldier - 354 00:17:32,047 --> 00:17:37,616 he got up and he was walking out down the aisle, 355 00:17:37,616 --> 00:17:40,927 and Mr. Five-star General called him out 356 00:17:40,927 --> 00:17:44,596 and said, son, where are you going? 357 00:17:44,596 --> 00:17:47,727 And in front of everybody, he said, 358 00:17:47,727 --> 00:17:51,326 Sir, I have the highest respect for you 359 00:17:51,326 --> 00:17:55,286 and I just think that this is inappropriate. 360 00:17:55,286 --> 00:17:56,656 And you know what? 361 00:17:56,656 --> 00:17:59,275 He stopped that story, 362 00:17:59,275 --> 00:18:01,535 and he said, son, sit down. 363 00:18:01,535 --> 00:18:02,967 And he didn't tell the story 364 00:18:02,967 --> 00:18:05,837 and he went right into his thing. 365 00:18:05,837 --> 00:18:13,467 And I was like, John, you did that? 366 00:18:13,467 --> 00:18:15,516 But you know what? That's good. 367 00:18:15,516 --> 00:18:17,970 That's being light. 368 00:18:17,970 --> 00:18:20,876 And we need that. 369 00:18:20,876 --> 00:18:22,346 The last thing we want to do 370 00:18:22,346 --> 00:18:24,715 is every difficult work situation, 371 00:18:24,715 --> 00:18:26,286 we extract the Christian. 372 00:18:26,286 --> 00:18:27,506 We don't want to do that. 373 00:18:27,506 --> 00:18:29,626 Now, you don't want to stay in a position 374 00:18:29,626 --> 00:18:32,005 where you're being required to sin, 375 00:18:32,005 --> 00:18:34,626 or where you're requiring somebody else to sin. 376 00:18:34,626 --> 00:18:35,816 But I think the thing is 377 00:18:35,816 --> 00:18:38,598 before we just abscond 378 00:18:38,598 --> 00:18:40,346 and run from situations, 379 00:18:40,346 --> 00:18:45,877 we should seek to stay, if possible, 380 00:18:45,877 --> 00:18:47,523 and never sin. 381 00:18:47,523 --> 00:18:50,818 That's one thing when you're thinking about this. 382 00:18:50,818 --> 00:18:55,057 Whatever situation you determine to remain in, 383 00:18:55,057 --> 00:18:56,987 you just have to take this stance: 384 00:18:56,987 --> 00:18:59,186 I am not going to sin. 385 00:18:59,186 --> 00:19:01,585 And there's a place 386 00:19:01,585 --> 00:19:04,216 that if you're being surrounded by sin, 387 00:19:04,216 --> 00:19:08,117 where the job doesn't necessitate sin, 388 00:19:08,117 --> 00:19:09,676 but you've got people around you 389 00:19:09,676 --> 00:19:11,985 that are being dishonest like at the car lot 390 00:19:11,985 --> 00:19:13,995 or in the shipping company, 391 00:19:13,995 --> 00:19:17,227 or even in the engineering firm I worked for 392 00:19:17,227 --> 00:19:19,280 where you've got people that are lying 393 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:21,544 or their conduct isn't (right). 394 00:19:21,544 --> 00:19:23,984 Oh man, I remember one time 395 00:19:23,984 --> 00:19:30,437 Brother Craig, he went back to the tool room - 396 00:19:30,437 --> 00:19:33,764 this was when he worked in Seguin - 397 00:19:33,764 --> 00:19:35,675 he went to the tool room 398 00:19:35,675 --> 00:19:37,577 and he had to get something, 399 00:19:37,577 --> 00:19:41,735 and the man there that operated the tool room 400 00:19:41,735 --> 00:19:43,316 had a foul mouth, 401 00:19:43,316 --> 00:19:47,025 and he just went off and said something, 402 00:19:47,025 --> 00:19:50,775 and Craig called him out on it. 403 00:19:50,775 --> 00:19:58,716 And Craig said the guy just blew up. 404 00:19:58,716 --> 00:20:03,594 But again, I think that's what's critical. 405 00:20:03,594 --> 00:20:06,816 We're supposed to expose them. 406 00:20:06,816 --> 00:20:10,606 So okay, it comes back to: 407 00:20:10,606 --> 00:20:18,648 You've got somebody working in a Catholic hospital. 408 00:20:18,648 --> 00:20:21,126 What do you think? 409 00:20:21,126 --> 00:20:22,639 I suspect this: 410 00:20:22,639 --> 00:20:24,897 I suspect that the average Christian, 411 00:20:24,897 --> 00:20:26,306 if it was a Lutheran hospital 412 00:20:26,306 --> 00:20:27,715 or a Methodist hospital 413 00:20:27,715 --> 00:20:30,086 wouldn't think as much about it 414 00:20:30,086 --> 00:20:32,565 as they do if it's a Catholic hospital. 415 00:20:32,565 --> 00:20:34,024 But I'll tell you this, 416 00:20:34,024 --> 00:20:37,604 the Catholics don't have the Gospel, 417 00:20:37,604 --> 00:20:40,098 but most Lutherans and most Methodists 418 00:20:40,098 --> 00:20:42,296 don't have it either. 419 00:20:42,296 --> 00:20:45,066 (Incomplete thought) 420 00:20:45,066 --> 00:20:50,985 And in fact, a lot of Baptists don't have it. 421 00:20:50,985 --> 00:20:52,736 And so, here's the thing, 422 00:20:52,736 --> 00:20:55,635 you're working for a Catholic hospital. 423 00:20:55,635 --> 00:20:57,836 And I would say this - she says, 424 00:20:57,836 --> 00:21:00,827 "a hospital that's focused on the Gospel and Christianity." 425 00:21:00,827 --> 00:21:02,826 I just put a question mark by that 426 00:21:02,826 --> 00:21:05,905 because I'm not certain 427 00:21:05,905 --> 00:21:10,556 exactly what that means. 428 00:21:10,556 --> 00:21:13,317 I'm not sure that Catholics are typically 429 00:21:13,317 --> 00:21:15,837 focusing on the Gospel or true Christianity, 430 00:21:15,837 --> 00:21:17,644 but she's working for a hospital 431 00:21:17,644 --> 00:21:19,368 in the marketing department. 432 00:21:19,368 --> 00:21:22,316 And I'm thinking she's probably not teaching. 433 00:21:22,316 --> 00:21:25,177 She's probably not being indoctrinated herself. 434 00:21:25,177 --> 00:21:27,416 She's probably not being put in a position 435 00:21:27,416 --> 00:21:31,387 where she's being expected to embrace 436 00:21:31,387 --> 00:21:33,196 Catholic doctrine 437 00:21:33,196 --> 00:21:34,926 or to propagate that doctrine. 438 00:21:34,926 --> 00:21:39,155 I'm thinking if you work for a hospital... 439 00:21:39,155 --> 00:21:41,747 James: Well, she's a marketing person. 440 00:21:41,747 --> 00:21:45,057 She could be involved in publishing content. 441 00:21:45,057 --> 00:21:48,348 She mentions specifically, 442 00:21:48,348 --> 00:21:50,997 "they just pray to God or Jesus" - 443 00:21:50,997 --> 00:21:52,627 I guess her point was not to Mary. 444 00:21:52,627 --> 00:21:53,927 My question would be: 445 00:21:53,927 --> 00:21:56,278 are you sharing stuff on your Facebook? 446 00:21:56,278 --> 00:21:57,986 Or other places on the Internet 447 00:21:57,986 --> 00:22:01,166 that promotes Mary and Catholic dogma? 448 00:22:01,166 --> 00:22:03,365 Tim: Yes, if you're in a marketing situation 449 00:22:03,365 --> 00:22:06,825 and you're having to compile literature, 450 00:22:06,825 --> 00:22:11,566 websites, any type of social media, 451 00:22:11,566 --> 00:22:15,247 any type of advertisement whatsoever 452 00:22:15,247 --> 00:22:19,027 where you are actually promoting 453 00:22:19,027 --> 00:22:22,517 the Catholic church or its teachings, 454 00:22:22,517 --> 00:22:25,126 I think you're dead wrong. 455 00:22:25,126 --> 00:22:28,537 Because look, when it comes 456 00:22:28,537 --> 00:22:30,356 to the actual teaching, 457 00:22:30,356 --> 00:22:35,518 we have this reality in 2 John. 458 00:22:35,518 --> 00:22:38,756 Do you know what it says about greeting people? 459 00:22:38,756 --> 00:22:41,227 (unintelligible) 460 00:22:41,227 --> 00:22:43,307 Well, the thing is if you've got somebody 461 00:22:43,307 --> 00:22:44,858 that's departed from the truth, 462 00:22:44,858 --> 00:22:49,016 John says don't even greet them. 463 00:22:49,016 --> 00:22:51,987 That's if somebody else is the one doing it, 464 00:22:51,987 --> 00:22:54,678 let alone if you're the one propagating it. 465 00:22:54,678 --> 00:22:57,357 No way should you ever be put in a situation 466 00:22:57,357 --> 00:22:59,926 where you're propagating error 467 00:22:59,926 --> 00:23:01,928 or teaching error. 468 00:23:01,928 --> 00:23:04,867 And if I'm that biology teacher 469 00:23:04,867 --> 00:23:06,437 (incomplete thought). 470 00:23:06,437 --> 00:23:08,378 See, I think there's always a place 471 00:23:08,378 --> 00:23:10,586 for the Christian to go to their higher-ups. 472 00:23:10,586 --> 00:23:12,077 Go to their supervisors, 473 00:23:12,077 --> 00:23:13,147 go to their foreman's, 474 00:23:13,147 --> 00:23:15,658 go to the boss - whoever that is - 475 00:23:15,658 --> 00:23:21,456 and say... I think there's a place for being honest. 476 00:23:21,456 --> 00:23:22,965 I'm a Christian. 477 00:23:22,965 --> 00:23:25,415 This is my conviction. 478 00:23:25,415 --> 00:23:28,827 I can't do that. 479 00:23:28,827 --> 00:23:30,149 I really like working here. 480 00:23:30,149 --> 00:23:31,757 I want to continue to work here, 481 00:23:31,757 --> 00:23:39,046 but I can't do that. 482 00:23:39,046 --> 00:23:40,846 And look, I can teach - 483 00:23:40,846 --> 00:23:42,796 perhaps somebody could say this - 484 00:23:42,796 --> 00:23:44,696 I can teach evolution, 485 00:23:44,696 --> 00:23:48,416 as long as you let me explain 486 00:23:48,416 --> 00:23:49,625 to the students 487 00:23:49,625 --> 00:23:54,006 that there are other thoughts and worldviews 488 00:23:54,006 --> 00:23:55,996 than that one, 489 00:23:55,996 --> 00:24:02,688 and if you allow me to indicate to the children 490 00:24:02,688 --> 00:24:04,506 that perhaps that's not the one 491 00:24:04,506 --> 00:24:06,157 that I think is correct. 492 00:24:06,157 --> 00:24:07,927 I think this one over here's correct. 493 00:24:07,927 --> 00:24:10,166 If you won't let me do that, 494 00:24:10,166 --> 00:24:15,237 then I probably can't teach science. 495 00:24:15,237 --> 00:24:18,317 Maybe I could teach math. 496 00:24:18,317 --> 00:24:20,419 But you let your convictions be known. 497 00:24:20,419 --> 00:24:22,286 I think that's critical 498 00:24:22,286 --> 00:24:23,898 for being salt and light. 499 00:24:23,898 --> 00:24:25,407 Wherever you work, 500 00:24:25,407 --> 00:24:26,856 they know who you are. 501 00:24:26,856 --> 00:24:28,299 They know what you are. 502 00:24:28,299 --> 00:24:30,665 They know something about your testimony. 503 00:24:30,665 --> 00:24:33,457 They know something about what you believe. 504 00:24:33,457 --> 00:24:37,765 And you're there confronting the darkness. 505 00:24:37,765 --> 00:24:40,659 Jesus said, "If you deny Me..." 506 00:24:40,659 --> 00:24:41,677 that He would deny. 507 00:24:41,677 --> 00:24:43,066 We don't want to deny Him. 508 00:24:43,066 --> 00:24:45,747 I think for the Christian to be able to work somewhere 509 00:24:45,747 --> 00:24:47,718 and nobody ever knows they're Christians, 510 00:24:47,718 --> 00:24:52,236 they're certainly not being light. 511 00:24:52,236 --> 00:24:54,788 So yes, a lot of this, 512 00:24:54,788 --> 00:24:56,717 as far as this Catholic hospital 513 00:24:56,717 --> 00:24:59,666 would depend on what she's being asked to do. 514 00:24:59,666 --> 00:25:03,636 The reality is if her primary responsibilities 515 00:25:03,636 --> 00:25:07,055 all wrap around people's healthcare, 516 00:25:07,055 --> 00:25:08,706 I mean, it's a hospital - 517 00:25:08,706 --> 00:25:11,037 if their primary driving reality 518 00:25:11,037 --> 00:25:13,786 of the majority of the people's jobs there 519 00:25:13,786 --> 00:25:16,696 has to do with people's health - 520 00:25:16,696 --> 00:25:17,786 getting people well, 521 00:25:17,786 --> 00:25:22,756 getting people healed - 522 00:25:22,756 --> 00:25:26,297 certainly, just because it says "Catholic," 523 00:25:26,297 --> 00:25:27,817 if a doctor told me, 524 00:25:27,817 --> 00:25:32,008 well, I went to work at Shriner's - 525 00:25:32,008 --> 00:25:35,486 I don't know, there might be better choices, 526 00:25:35,486 --> 00:25:38,147 but we all have to weigh these things out. 527 00:25:38,147 --> 00:25:39,507 And I think as a Christian, 528 00:25:39,507 --> 00:25:41,627 one of the things we have to weigh out 529 00:25:41,627 --> 00:25:46,277 is: look, I might be the only Christian in that place. 530 00:25:46,277 --> 00:25:49,065 So is the best thing for you to do is leave? 531 00:25:49,065 --> 00:25:51,308 We have to measure 532 00:25:51,308 --> 00:25:54,046 what does it say about our testimony. 533 00:25:54,046 --> 00:25:56,036 We have to weigh all these things out. 534 00:25:56,036 --> 00:25:57,887 It's kind of like the money situation. 535 00:25:57,887 --> 00:25:59,667 Is there an exact right answer? 536 00:25:59,667 --> 00:26:01,168 You know what? 537 00:26:01,168 --> 00:26:03,827 Whatsoever's not of faith is sin. 538 00:26:03,827 --> 00:26:05,447 We have to measure these things. 539 00:26:05,447 --> 00:26:07,137 We have to weigh these things out. 540 00:26:07,137 --> 00:26:08,950 And I would say this, 541 00:26:08,950 --> 00:26:10,747 there may be an environment 542 00:26:10,747 --> 00:26:12,256 that a weaker Christian says: 543 00:26:12,256 --> 00:26:13,677 I can't be here. 544 00:26:13,677 --> 00:26:16,287 Where a stronger Christian could say: 545 00:26:16,287 --> 00:26:18,738 Perhaps I can work here. 546 00:26:18,738 --> 00:26:20,615 Perhaps there's an individual that says 547 00:26:20,615 --> 00:26:22,787 at one point in time: I can work here; 548 00:26:22,787 --> 00:26:25,166 and then at a different point in time, he says, 549 00:26:25,166 --> 00:26:27,897 I no longer can. 550 00:26:27,897 --> 00:26:29,817 I don't think that's impossible 551 00:26:29,817 --> 00:26:31,635 for two Christians to be confronted 552 00:26:31,635 --> 00:26:32,666 by the same job, 553 00:26:32,666 --> 00:26:34,736 and one feels like with a clear conscience 554 00:26:34,736 --> 00:26:35,655 he can work there, 555 00:26:35,655 --> 00:26:37,365 and the other feels like with a clear conscience, 556 00:26:37,365 --> 00:26:38,608 they can't work there. 557 00:26:38,608 --> 00:26:41,032 I think that's what Romans 14 is all about. 558 00:26:41,032 --> 00:26:43,457 Some observe a day. Some don't observe a day. 559 00:26:43,457 --> 00:26:45,918 Some eat vegetables. Some eat meat. 560 00:26:45,918 --> 00:26:47,737 It's the kind of thing where 561 00:26:47,737 --> 00:26:49,617 we're trying to wrestle, 562 00:26:49,617 --> 00:26:54,716 we're trying to have our conscience 563 00:26:54,716 --> 00:26:56,719 constrained by the Word of God; 564 00:26:56,719 --> 00:26:58,926 constrained by the truth that we know. 565 00:26:58,926 --> 00:27:01,061 And we have to live up to that light, 566 00:27:01,061 --> 00:27:03,978 but I would say any one of us, 567 00:27:03,978 --> 00:27:04,898 if we're in a job, 568 00:27:04,898 --> 00:27:08,007 if we're in any kind of position, 569 00:27:08,007 --> 00:27:12,407 we need to be light. 570 00:27:12,407 --> 00:27:14,608 And we need to reprove the works of darkness. 571 00:27:14,608 --> 00:27:17,497 That's what we're called to do. 572 00:27:17,497 --> 00:27:20,737 You know, a holy life in itself 573 00:27:20,737 --> 00:27:22,659 will have a tendency to reprove, 574 00:27:22,659 --> 00:27:25,837 but I think the reproving is oftentimes 575 00:27:25,837 --> 00:27:32,665 necessary to be done by our mouths. 576 00:27:32,665 --> 00:27:34,327 And yeah, it can be uncomfortable 577 00:27:34,327 --> 00:27:35,766 and it can be confrontational. 578 00:27:35,766 --> 00:27:40,737 And at times, it can cost you your job. 579 00:27:40,737 --> 00:27:42,988 But that's okay. 580 00:27:42,988 --> 00:27:44,957 I mean, if you stand for what's right 581 00:27:44,957 --> 00:27:45,985 in some place 582 00:27:45,985 --> 00:27:48,926 and it ends up costing you the job, 583 00:27:48,926 --> 00:27:54,289 then that's okay. 584 00:27:54,289 --> 00:27:56,189 Those who want to be godly 585 00:27:56,189 --> 00:27:57,758 in this present world, 586 00:27:57,758 --> 00:28:00,927 they are going to face persecution. 587 00:28:00,927 --> 00:28:03,138 Look, the reality is 588 00:28:03,138 --> 00:28:04,666 take somebody like Jesus 589 00:28:04,666 --> 00:28:06,916 and throw Him into humanity, and what happens? 590 00:28:06,916 --> 00:28:08,687 They killed Him. 591 00:28:08,687 --> 00:28:10,117 And the more you're like Him 592 00:28:10,117 --> 00:28:13,566 and you throw you into that darkness out there, 593 00:28:13,566 --> 00:28:15,356 the more you are like Him, 594 00:28:15,356 --> 00:28:18,566 the more the world is going to sit up and take notice 595 00:28:18,566 --> 00:28:24,276 and often hate you. 596 00:28:24,276 --> 00:28:26,225 Anything more to say about that one? 597 00:28:26,225 --> 00:28:28,686 (from the room/unintelligible) 598 00:28:28,686 --> 00:28:31,506 Like you mentioned early on, in Luke 3, 599 00:28:31,506 --> 00:28:33,706 these people had these jobs. 600 00:28:33,706 --> 00:28:36,491 The jobs weren't sinful in and of themselves. 601 00:28:36,491 --> 00:28:40,021 (unintelligible) 602 00:28:40,021 --> 00:28:42,746 Tim: Yeah, what James is talking about is this: 603 00:28:42,746 --> 00:28:44,535 Do you remember when John the Baptist 604 00:28:44,535 --> 00:28:45,516 came on the scene? 605 00:28:45,516 --> 00:28:48,107 And it says specifically 606 00:28:48,107 --> 00:28:51,906 that the soldiers came to John 607 00:28:51,906 --> 00:28:54,607 and said "what must we do?" 608 00:28:54,607 --> 00:28:57,837 He was saying: bring forth works 609 00:28:57,837 --> 00:29:02,365 that are in line with your repentance. 610 00:29:02,365 --> 00:29:04,628 And the soldiers said what do we do? 611 00:29:04,628 --> 00:29:06,616 And it's very interesting that John 612 00:29:06,616 --> 00:29:08,807 did not say: all you soldiers 613 00:29:08,807 --> 00:29:10,908 need to stop being soldiers 614 00:29:10,908 --> 00:29:13,565 because there's no way 615 00:29:13,565 --> 00:29:16,405 for you to live righteously as a soldier. 616 00:29:16,405 --> 00:29:20,257 That's not what he said. 617 00:29:20,257 --> 00:29:22,666 Soldiers were big. Soldiers were strong. 618 00:29:22,666 --> 00:29:25,186 Soldiers were fighters. 619 00:29:25,186 --> 00:29:26,876 They were armed. 620 00:29:26,876 --> 00:29:30,198 Very easy for them to extort people. 621 00:29:30,198 --> 00:29:32,279 And he said don't do that. 622 00:29:32,279 --> 00:29:33,726 Really? 623 00:29:33,726 --> 00:29:35,288 Soldiers have to go to war. 624 00:29:35,288 --> 00:29:36,248 They have to fight. 625 00:29:36,248 --> 00:29:37,998 They often have to kill. 626 00:29:37,998 --> 00:29:42,217 How come you didn't address any of that? 627 00:29:42,217 --> 00:29:44,219 Well, you know what? 628 00:29:44,219 --> 00:29:50,108 Actually, Scripture says that God 629 00:29:50,108 --> 00:29:56,088 has given the sword to governments. 630 00:29:56,088 --> 00:29:58,196 That's God-ordained. 631 00:29:58,196 --> 00:30:00,527 Governments are God-ordained, 632 00:30:00,527 --> 00:30:02,748 and them bearing the sword 633 00:30:02,748 --> 00:30:06,168 is God-ordained. 634 00:30:06,168 --> 00:30:09,517 Personally, I would never tell anybody - 635 00:30:09,517 --> 00:30:11,007 any Christian - 636 00:30:11,007 --> 00:30:12,647 that being on a SWAT team, 637 00:30:12,647 --> 00:30:14,437 being in the military, 638 00:30:14,437 --> 00:30:18,895 being a police officer is sin. 639 00:30:18,895 --> 00:30:21,428 They need to sort that out before the Lord, 640 00:30:21,428 --> 00:30:26,268 but if a Christian decided before the Lord 641 00:30:26,268 --> 00:30:31,298 that he believed that was what God was calling him to, 642 00:30:31,298 --> 00:30:37,327 I could not say based on what Scripture teaches, 643 00:30:37,327 --> 00:30:42,156 I can't say that that dogmatically is sin. 644 00:30:42,156 --> 00:30:45,125 Now, if you take the position 645 00:30:45,125 --> 00:30:52,667 like what's that old Gary Cooper movie? 646 00:30:52,667 --> 00:30:53,917 Sergeant York. 647 00:30:53,917 --> 00:30:55,385 Remember Sergeant York? 648 00:30:55,385 --> 00:30:56,937 Anybody know about him? 649 00:30:56,937 --> 00:31:00,107 He was the most decorated war hero - 650 00:31:00,107 --> 00:31:04,241 U.S. war hero of World War 1. 651 00:31:04,241 --> 00:31:06,687 He was the real deal. 652 00:31:06,687 --> 00:31:08,376 He got saved shortly before 653 00:31:08,376 --> 00:31:10,366 World War 1 broke out. 654 00:31:10,366 --> 00:31:12,184 He was minded not to go. 655 00:31:12,184 --> 00:31:16,834 He believed God did not want him to kill. 656 00:31:16,834 --> 00:31:19,515 (Incomplete thought). 657 00:31:19,515 --> 00:31:22,807 He started out as a conscientious objector 658 00:31:22,807 --> 00:31:25,017 and he ended up going. 659 00:31:25,017 --> 00:31:27,601 And if you watch the movie 660 00:31:27,601 --> 00:31:29,565 and if the movie's true to real life, 661 00:31:29,565 --> 00:31:31,466 which I never actually read 662 00:31:31,466 --> 00:31:33,167 a Sergeant York biography, 663 00:31:33,167 --> 00:31:35,515 so I don't know how true the movie is 664 00:31:35,515 --> 00:31:36,585 to real life, 665 00:31:36,585 --> 00:31:39,417 but he says in the movie 666 00:31:39,417 --> 00:31:43,176 that he killed to save; 667 00:31:43,176 --> 00:31:46,097 that taking out the Germans that he took out 668 00:31:46,097 --> 00:31:49,666 actually ended up saving many, many 669 00:31:49,666 --> 00:31:52,197 of the allied soldiers. 670 00:31:52,197 --> 00:31:54,157 And he was the most decorated. 671 00:31:54,157 --> 00:31:55,916 He was a hero. 672 00:31:55,916 --> 00:32:03,036 He went up through all these machine gun nests. 673 00:32:03,036 --> 00:32:05,537 You know, if you're a conscientious objector 674 00:32:05,537 --> 00:32:08,145 and you choose not to do it, 675 00:32:08,145 --> 00:32:11,707 and you do so before the Lord? Amen. 676 00:32:11,707 --> 00:32:16,167 If you feel like you can go into battle, 677 00:32:16,167 --> 00:32:19,137 personally if I were to ask the question: 678 00:32:19,137 --> 00:32:21,786 does Scripture specifically forbid - 679 00:32:21,786 --> 00:32:28,137 if God gives the sword to the government, 680 00:32:28,137 --> 00:32:29,675 and you're a police officer 681 00:32:29,675 --> 00:32:34,649 and you're bearing that sword, 682 00:32:34,649 --> 00:32:38,927 does that seem to be consistent with Scripture? 683 00:32:38,927 --> 00:32:41,665 It does, but if you asked me, 684 00:32:41,665 --> 00:32:44,076 would Jesus take a gun and shoot somebody? 685 00:32:44,076 --> 00:32:46,976 I don't believe He would. 686 00:32:46,976 --> 00:32:53,168 (Incomplete thought) 687 00:32:53,168 --> 00:32:55,335 What does that mean? 688 00:32:55,335 --> 00:32:57,548 Does that mean that there are some things 689 00:32:57,548 --> 00:32:59,906 that are okay to do 690 00:32:59,906 --> 00:33:02,175 even if Jesus Himself wouldn't do them? 691 00:33:02,175 --> 00:33:05,917 I mean, these are the kind of things we have to wrestle with. 692 00:33:05,917 --> 00:33:11,476 Is it appropriate to put people to death? 693 00:33:11,476 --> 00:33:14,555 I mean, you have to ask that of Moses. 694 00:33:14,555 --> 00:33:16,718 Moses, what do you say? 695 00:33:16,718 --> 00:33:18,667 You went into the land of Canaan. 696 00:33:18,667 --> 00:33:22,959 Or, not Moses, but Joshua rather. 697 00:33:22,959 --> 00:33:25,196 Was it okay to kill? 698 00:33:25,196 --> 00:33:27,625 David, was it okay to kill? 699 00:33:27,625 --> 00:33:29,366 I mean, even commanded of God? 700 00:33:29,366 --> 00:33:32,116 Saul, did you lose your kingdom 701 00:33:32,116 --> 00:33:33,627 because you didn't kill 702 00:33:33,627 --> 00:33:36,656 when you were supposed to kill? 703 00:33:36,656 --> 00:33:38,506 I mean, is there a time in Scripture 704 00:33:38,506 --> 00:33:42,067 when killing was right? 705 00:33:42,067 --> 00:33:43,507 We'd have to say yes. 706 00:33:43,507 --> 00:33:45,036 Capital offense. 707 00:33:45,036 --> 00:33:46,645 If somebody committed murder, 708 00:33:46,645 --> 00:33:48,827 were they to be put to death? 709 00:33:48,827 --> 00:33:53,126 Yes. 710 00:33:53,126 --> 00:33:55,617 But would Jesus have killed? 711 00:33:55,617 --> 00:33:58,357 When they brought the woman 712 00:33:58,357 --> 00:34:00,398 taken in adultery, 713 00:34:00,398 --> 00:34:04,326 Moses did require her to be put to death. 714 00:34:04,326 --> 00:34:06,787 And He didn't do it. 715 00:34:06,787 --> 00:34:08,965 These are the things we have to wrestle with 716 00:34:08,965 --> 00:34:12,129 in some cases 717 00:34:12,129 --> 00:34:17,777 if you're thinking about those kinds of routes. 718 00:34:17,777 --> 00:34:23,707 Anything else on this subject? 719 00:34:23,707 --> 00:34:29,836 Well, that's probably enough for tonight. 720 00:34:29,836 --> 00:34:38,427 Okay, let's pray. 721 00:34:38,427 --> 00:34:40,425 Oh Lord, we pray to be a people 722 00:34:40,425 --> 00:34:45,276 that are guided by truth. 723 00:34:45,276 --> 00:34:48,285 We want to be the children of light. 724 00:34:48,285 --> 00:34:54,647 You tell us to rebuke the works of darkness. 725 00:34:54,647 --> 00:34:56,277 Help us to be children of light. 726 00:34:56,277 --> 00:34:57,628 Help us to really shine. 727 00:34:57,628 --> 00:34:59,159 We read of John the Baptist - 728 00:34:59,159 --> 00:35:01,136 a burning and shining light. 729 00:35:01,136 --> 00:35:04,996 Lord, we want that to be true of ourselves. 730 00:35:04,996 --> 00:35:06,097 Help us, Lord. 731 00:35:06,097 --> 00:35:07,649 Give us the boldness. 732 00:35:07,649 --> 00:35:09,857 We want to be bold to proclaim Christ 733 00:35:09,857 --> 00:35:12,627 in even the hardest situations. 734 00:35:12,627 --> 00:35:14,496 We want to be faithful 735 00:35:14,496 --> 00:35:19,197 to go out into the darkness of this world and shine. 736 00:35:19,197 --> 00:35:21,257 I pray, Lord, light us. 737 00:35:21,257 --> 00:35:22,976 Light us up. 738 00:35:22,976 --> 00:35:25,047 We pray in Christ's name, Amen.