1 00:00:05,185 --> 00:00:08,201 So this one's from Alex. 2 00:00:08,201 --> 00:00:09,466 "Hello, Pastor Tim. 3 00:00:09,466 --> 00:00:11,184 Thank you for the Pastor Tim series. 4 00:00:11,184 --> 00:00:13,692 I have found it to be a great resource for me. 5 00:00:13,692 --> 00:00:16,665 I was witnessing to a Muslim man 6 00:00:16,665 --> 00:00:19,203 in Africa last summer 7 00:00:19,203 --> 00:00:24,776 who asked a very difficult question." 8 00:00:24,776 --> 00:00:26,663 So this guy's thinking this question 9 00:00:26,663 --> 00:00:30,639 from this Muslim in Africa 10 00:00:30,639 --> 00:00:34,260 is a very difficult question. 11 00:00:34,260 --> 00:00:37,780 Now, I'll let you guys size up the difficulty of it. 12 00:00:37,780 --> 00:00:41,918 "Jesus is both God and man. 13 00:00:41,918 --> 00:00:44,695 So when He died, 14 00:00:44,695 --> 00:00:50,424 did His divine nature die?" 15 00:00:50,424 --> 00:00:51,943 You see the question. 16 00:00:51,943 --> 00:00:58,585 When He died, did His divine nature die? 17 00:00:58,585 --> 00:01:04,745 "If so, then did God really die? 18 00:01:04,745 --> 00:01:10,330 But, if only His human nature died, 19 00:01:10,330 --> 00:01:14,615 what's the big deal about Him dying as a man? 20 00:01:14,615 --> 00:01:17,476 How would you answer this question?" 21 00:01:17,476 --> 00:01:21,805 And here's what it seems like happened. 22 00:01:21,805 --> 00:01:24,557 You have a Christian. 23 00:01:24,557 --> 00:01:27,949 Here's a Muslim. 24 00:01:27,949 --> 00:01:30,764 And he's saying, look, if Jesus Christ 25 00:01:30,764 --> 00:01:37,774 has two natures - both God and man - 26 00:01:37,774 --> 00:01:41,738 but He only died as a man, 27 00:01:41,738 --> 00:01:45,653 but as God, He didn't die, 28 00:01:45,653 --> 00:01:47,697 the Muslim is posing the question: 29 00:01:47,697 --> 00:01:50,066 what's the big deal? 30 00:01:50,066 --> 00:01:53,785 In other words, what he seems like he's saying is, 31 00:01:53,785 --> 00:01:54,942 He didn't really die. 32 00:01:54,942 --> 00:02:00,801 It's not legit. 33 00:02:00,801 --> 00:02:03,685 And I would say that the problem 34 00:02:03,685 --> 00:02:08,709 that this man is falling into 35 00:02:08,709 --> 00:02:10,761 as to why it's so difficult 36 00:02:10,761 --> 00:02:13,684 is I'm just surmising here - 37 00:02:13,684 --> 00:02:16,165 it was so difficult because he was 38 00:02:16,165 --> 00:02:22,560 trying to figure out how to answer the man 39 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,611 perhaps without Scripture. 40 00:02:25,611 --> 00:02:35,051 Like, how can I establish 41 00:02:35,051 --> 00:02:40,595 that Him dying as a man 42 00:02:40,595 --> 00:02:44,007 really is significant when He's God 43 00:02:44,007 --> 00:02:46,410 and as God He didn't die? 44 00:02:46,410 --> 00:02:49,048 And so, it's really difficult because he's thinking, 45 00:02:49,048 --> 00:02:52,604 I don't know how to answer that. 46 00:02:52,604 --> 00:02:56,419 But the first thing I would say is, 47 00:02:56,419 --> 00:03:02,620 look, is He God? 48 00:03:02,620 --> 00:03:07,009 Yes. 49 00:03:07,009 --> 00:03:10,733 The Word was with God and the Word was God. 50 00:03:10,733 --> 00:03:15,345 My Lord and my God. 51 00:03:15,345 --> 00:03:19,581 Is He man? 52 00:03:19,581 --> 00:03:21,463 The Word became flesh. 53 00:03:21,463 --> 00:03:26,571 We know He's God and man. 54 00:03:26,571 --> 00:03:29,927 Just thinking about the attributes of God. 55 00:03:29,927 --> 00:03:35,737 Can God die? 56 00:03:35,737 --> 00:03:39,744 In fact, I think one of the things that we need to think about 57 00:03:39,744 --> 00:03:43,513 is what is death? 58 00:03:43,513 --> 00:03:46,648 See, I think sometimes there's even 59 00:03:46,648 --> 00:03:48,859 a wrong concept about what death is, 60 00:03:48,859 --> 00:03:52,441 and so we start thinking all wrong 61 00:03:52,441 --> 00:03:53,973 even at that level. 62 00:03:53,973 --> 00:03:56,045 But what is death? 63 00:03:56,045 --> 00:03:59,410 (from the room): The wages for sin. 64 00:03:59,410 --> 00:04:03,213 Tim: That's the cause of it, 65 00:04:03,213 --> 00:04:07,243 but what is it actually. 66 00:04:07,243 --> 00:04:10,336 (from the room): Separation of soul and body. 67 00:04:10,336 --> 00:04:16,440 (unintelligible) 68 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:18,631 Tim: But what is life? 69 00:04:18,631 --> 00:04:21,856 What was somebody just saying? 70 00:04:21,856 --> 00:04:24,715 (from the room): Separation from God's favor and grace. 71 00:04:24,715 --> 00:04:28,120 Tim: What is life? 72 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,673 What is eternal life? 73 00:04:30,673 --> 00:04:32,457 To know God. 74 00:04:32,457 --> 00:04:37,822 The idea of death - you think of the second death - 75 00:04:37,822 --> 00:04:40,181 it's outer darkness. 76 00:04:40,181 --> 00:04:43,472 The idea of death is separation. 77 00:04:43,472 --> 00:04:49,531 (incomplete thought) 78 00:04:49,531 --> 00:04:50,903 And see, the thing is, 79 00:04:50,903 --> 00:04:53,543 when you think about eternal life, 80 00:04:53,543 --> 00:04:56,831 eternal life is about knowing God. 81 00:04:56,831 --> 00:05:00,933 And so the idea of God failing to know God; 82 00:05:00,933 --> 00:05:05,010 the idea of God being separated from God; 83 00:05:05,010 --> 00:05:08,922 the idea of God being cast away from God - 84 00:05:08,922 --> 00:05:10,312 you see, how could God die? 85 00:05:10,312 --> 00:05:13,058 That's the point I'm making. 86 00:05:13,058 --> 00:05:15,460 We could very easily say, 87 00:05:15,460 --> 00:05:18,532 think about the attributes of God. 88 00:05:18,532 --> 00:05:21,406 It's not possible for God to die. 89 00:05:21,406 --> 00:05:24,912 But more than that, if you think about what death is, 90 00:05:24,912 --> 00:05:27,418 you just recognize, 91 00:05:27,418 --> 00:05:31,601 God can't be separated from Himself. 92 00:05:31,601 --> 00:05:36,182 He is life. He is life. 93 00:05:36,182 --> 00:05:41,341 How can He fail to be what He is? 94 00:05:41,341 --> 00:05:49,950 (from the room): The grave could not contain Him. 95 00:05:49,950 --> 00:05:52,543 Tim: But the thing is, 96 00:05:52,543 --> 00:05:56,978 what you don't ever want to let anybody do 97 00:05:56,978 --> 00:05:59,928 is disarm you of Scripture. 98 00:05:59,928 --> 00:06:02,571 And it doesn't matter if they're Muslim; 99 00:06:02,571 --> 00:06:05,079 it doesn't matter if they're JW's; 100 00:06:05,079 --> 00:06:07,402 it doesn't matter who they are. 101 00:06:07,402 --> 00:06:10,395 Look, just because a Jehovah's Witness 102 00:06:10,395 --> 00:06:14,625 says that John 1:1 is not in their Bible 103 00:06:14,625 --> 00:06:16,050 the way it is in yours, 104 00:06:16,050 --> 00:06:21,145 doesn't mean you don't continue to quote it to them. 105 00:06:21,145 --> 00:06:23,686 Just because a Muslim says, 106 00:06:23,686 --> 00:06:27,684 if Jesus Christ was both God and man 107 00:06:27,684 --> 00:06:29,661 and He didn't die as God, 108 00:06:29,661 --> 00:06:33,599 His death as man is basically meaningless. 109 00:06:33,599 --> 00:06:38,365 You know what that is? Do you know what that is? 110 00:06:38,365 --> 00:06:41,781 He's just making that up. 111 00:06:41,781 --> 00:06:43,687 That's just his own thoughts. 112 00:06:43,687 --> 00:06:47,076 Have you ever read what it says in Isaiah 55? 113 00:06:47,076 --> 00:06:49,180 "Let the wicked forsake his way..." 114 00:06:49,180 --> 00:06:51,386 and what? 115 00:06:51,386 --> 00:06:54,344 "...the unrighteous man his thoughts." 116 00:06:54,344 --> 00:06:56,092 You know what? 117 00:06:56,092 --> 00:06:59,280 We shouldn't doubt that unrighteous men like Muslims 118 00:06:59,280 --> 00:07:00,886 have wicked thoughts. 119 00:07:00,886 --> 00:07:02,206 They need to forsake those. 120 00:07:02,206 --> 00:07:03,852 They need to repent of those. 121 00:07:03,852 --> 00:07:05,974 And don't lay down your Bibles 122 00:07:05,974 --> 00:07:08,303 when you come face to face with a Muslim. 123 00:07:08,303 --> 00:07:10,268 Because here's the thing, 124 00:07:10,268 --> 00:07:13,943 does Scripture say that Jesus is both God and man? 125 00:07:13,943 --> 00:07:15,264 Yes, it does. 126 00:07:15,264 --> 00:07:17,519 Can God die? No, God cannot die. 127 00:07:17,519 --> 00:07:19,153 God is life. 128 00:07:19,153 --> 00:07:22,887 But can Jesus the man die? 129 00:07:22,887 --> 00:07:25,762 Scripture repeatedly says Christ died. 130 00:07:25,762 --> 00:07:28,796 But does it say that because God can't die 131 00:07:28,796 --> 00:07:32,819 and He's God - man can die and He did die. 132 00:07:32,819 --> 00:07:36,725 Does it therefore relegate His death to meaninglessness? 133 00:07:36,725 --> 00:07:38,263 It never does! 134 00:07:38,263 --> 00:07:39,746 That's just that guy's thought. 135 00:07:39,746 --> 00:07:41,417 Just because somebody says it, 136 00:07:41,417 --> 00:07:42,588 doesn't make it true. 137 00:07:42,588 --> 00:07:44,749 And it doesn't make it an impossible question 138 00:07:44,749 --> 00:07:46,250 for me to answer. 139 00:07:46,250 --> 00:07:48,074 The reality is what? 140 00:07:48,074 --> 00:07:53,684 The reality is His death wasn't meaningless. 141 00:07:53,684 --> 00:07:57,414 Now look, that connection between God and man - 142 00:07:57,414 --> 00:07:58,973 there's mystery. 143 00:07:58,973 --> 00:08:01,244 And you know what? You don't need to be afraid 144 00:08:01,244 --> 00:08:03,772 to tell somebody of a false religion. 145 00:08:03,772 --> 00:08:05,398 You know, sometimes we feel like 146 00:08:05,398 --> 00:08:08,294 we have to have an answer for everything. 147 00:08:08,294 --> 00:08:11,567 But there can be times when we say 148 00:08:11,567 --> 00:08:14,299 it's a mystery. 149 00:08:14,299 --> 00:08:17,421 There's mystery in this. 150 00:08:17,421 --> 00:08:22,597 Christ died, but nowhere does the Bible say 151 00:08:22,597 --> 00:08:26,254 that because He didn't die as God, 152 00:08:26,254 --> 00:08:32,695 that somehow that is not a big deal. 153 00:08:32,695 --> 00:08:36,122 I mean, what does Scripture say? 154 00:08:36,122 --> 00:08:40,126 Does Scripture make His death out to be a big deal? 155 00:08:40,126 --> 00:08:43,748 I mean, you think about Jesus Himself. 156 00:08:43,748 --> 00:08:47,447 He's imagining that cup. 157 00:08:47,447 --> 00:08:49,582 You see Him in the garden. 158 00:08:49,582 --> 00:08:52,432 This is the cup. 159 00:08:52,432 --> 00:08:55,677 This is the death. 160 00:08:55,677 --> 00:08:58,283 Brethren, what's the death? 161 00:08:58,283 --> 00:09:01,819 My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me? 162 00:09:01,819 --> 00:09:03,549 That's where the death is. 163 00:09:03,549 --> 00:09:05,332 That's the separation. 164 00:09:05,332 --> 00:09:07,839 Where have You gone? I've lost my God. 165 00:09:07,839 --> 00:09:09,608 I've lost His smile. 166 00:09:09,608 --> 00:09:11,813 I've lost His light. 167 00:09:11,813 --> 00:09:14,606 I've lost His goodness. I've lost His mercy. 168 00:09:14,606 --> 00:09:16,859 I'm separated from it. 169 00:09:16,859 --> 00:09:19,281 He was made sin. 170 00:09:19,281 --> 00:09:21,263 And does He just look at it and say, 171 00:09:21,263 --> 00:09:24,175 oh, I'm God and man, so this really - 172 00:09:24,175 --> 00:09:26,412 it's nothing. 173 00:09:26,412 --> 00:09:28,994 I can just laugh at it. 174 00:09:28,994 --> 00:09:31,835 He's sweating as it were great drops of blood 175 00:09:31,835 --> 00:09:34,588 and He's pleading with His Father: 176 00:09:34,588 --> 00:09:37,576 Please, take this cup away from Me. 177 00:09:37,576 --> 00:09:40,132 Have you ever read what it says in Luke 12? 178 00:09:40,132 --> 00:09:42,601 It says even as He was seeing it coming, 179 00:09:42,601 --> 00:09:47,155 He says I have a baptism to be baptized with. 180 00:09:47,155 --> 00:09:50,611 And that approach - you know, He walked His life that way, 181 00:09:50,611 --> 00:09:54,509 in light of that approaching death, 182 00:09:54,509 --> 00:09:57,770 and He said I'm in distress 183 00:09:57,770 --> 00:09:59,848 until it's accomplished. 184 00:09:59,848 --> 00:10:02,260 It was not a light matter. 185 00:10:02,260 --> 00:10:04,052 Do you know what Scripture says? 186 00:10:04,052 --> 00:10:05,847 "God so loved..." 187 00:10:05,847 --> 00:10:07,941 Do you want to see an expression of love? 188 00:10:07,941 --> 00:10:09,517 That's not a small thing. 189 00:10:09,517 --> 00:10:13,087 He so loved that He gave His Son. 190 00:10:13,087 --> 00:10:18,827 And when it says He spared not His own Son, 191 00:10:18,827 --> 00:10:20,973 that means He gave Him up to death. 192 00:10:20,973 --> 00:10:25,064 Have you ever read Isaiah 53? Of course, you have. 193 00:10:25,064 --> 00:10:26,888 You think that's a light matter? 194 00:10:26,888 --> 00:10:28,772 Do you think you just let a Muslim 195 00:10:28,772 --> 00:10:30,604 just run roughshod over you? 196 00:10:30,604 --> 00:10:32,814 Like, it doesn't matter, 197 00:10:32,814 --> 00:10:35,472 He's God so His death as a man doesn't matter. 198 00:10:35,472 --> 00:10:37,181 What do you mean it doesn't matter? 199 00:10:37,181 --> 00:10:39,892 He was stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 200 00:10:39,892 --> 00:10:42,741 And it said He was crushed for our iniquities. 201 00:10:42,741 --> 00:10:45,252 You better believe it was a huge deal. 202 00:10:45,252 --> 00:10:47,456 It's there that sin was paid for. 203 00:10:47,456 --> 00:10:49,364 And it was at a price - 204 00:10:49,364 --> 00:10:50,775 a ransom price, 205 00:10:50,775 --> 00:10:52,703 that nothing else could pay 206 00:10:52,703 --> 00:10:54,781 to purchase us from our sins. 207 00:10:54,781 --> 00:10:56,974 No price so great. 208 00:10:56,974 --> 00:11:00,103 And you start to think about the glory of God, 209 00:11:00,103 --> 00:11:03,524 and the infinity of hell. 210 00:11:03,524 --> 00:11:09,968 Listen, that cross, we can rightly measure 211 00:11:09,968 --> 00:11:12,556 what our sins are - 212 00:11:12,556 --> 00:11:15,021 the heinousness of it. 213 00:11:15,021 --> 00:11:20,653 The beauty is that He wasn't just a man, 214 00:11:20,653 --> 00:11:22,611 so that that death would not be 215 00:11:22,611 --> 00:11:25,897 just sufficient for a one-to-one trade. 216 00:11:25,897 --> 00:11:29,082 How is it that His death, the death of one man, 217 00:11:29,082 --> 00:11:35,389 can pay for a number that is like the stars 218 00:11:35,389 --> 00:11:39,244 out in that night sky? 219 00:11:39,244 --> 00:11:43,077 It's because there was value beyond just a man. 220 00:11:43,077 --> 00:11:45,539 Listen, there is mystery here, 221 00:11:45,539 --> 00:11:47,589 but we needed a man to die. 222 00:11:47,589 --> 00:11:49,684 Why? Because He came under the law - 223 00:11:49,684 --> 00:11:50,914 a law given to man. 224 00:11:50,914 --> 00:11:54,487 He came to satisfy a law for man. 225 00:11:54,487 --> 00:11:58,251 And He came to satisfy the wages of sin; 226 00:11:58,251 --> 00:12:00,312 the wage of breaking that law. 227 00:12:00,312 --> 00:12:03,135 He became a curse for us. 228 00:12:03,135 --> 00:12:04,489 He had to be a man. 229 00:12:04,489 --> 00:12:06,304 He had to bear the curse of the law 230 00:12:06,304 --> 00:12:07,664 that was given to man. 231 00:12:07,664 --> 00:12:10,671 He had to die the death that man had to die. 232 00:12:10,671 --> 00:12:12,953 And there had to be somehow in it 233 00:12:12,953 --> 00:12:18,375 the value to pay for an untold number of people. 234 00:12:18,375 --> 00:12:19,786 How does that happen? 235 00:12:19,786 --> 00:12:23,348 It happens when God and man 236 00:12:23,348 --> 00:12:26,655 are to be found in the same individual.