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This one is from (unintelligible).

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"In my recent times,

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I've been hearing about 
certain hand signals/gestures

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as being satanic.

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For example, in rock music

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rock stars stick their hands up in the air

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putting both their index finger

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and their pinky like Spider Man,

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shooting webs.

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What I'm asking is that do hand signals

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really show satanic things

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and that this should be taken seriously?

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Or is this really just a dumb superstition

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that people are making up about?

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I want to know what hand signs

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should be taken seriously,

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or is it that this whole 
hand signals/gestures

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really is just something stupid?

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Please let me know which one it is

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because I'm really confused 
about this situation."

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Look.

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Here's the thing about hand signals.

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I can do something with my hand right now

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that would be offensive to you all,

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and you all could probably 
imagine what it is.

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I could do this. It communicates 
something to you.

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I could do this.

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Am I satanic?

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Am I a rock music guy?

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Or am I a UT Austin fan?

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But the thing is,

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my understanding is people that are Masons

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have a secret signal.

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One of the things you 
have to think about is this:

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He's saying are there meanings behind it.

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Well, people have said - what is it?

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Proves I'm part of the Illuminati

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because every once in a while

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this happens to come off my gesture?

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James: It comes up a 
lot more than you realize.

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People have taken it from all your sermons

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and made a video with tons of clips

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with you doing it.

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Tim: But here's the thing.

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People say, does it have meaning

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or is it superstitious?

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Well, I would say this,

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I mean nothing by it.

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Which means, when I do it,

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I am not communicating

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anything to you.

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Now, if you read something into it,

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which you might from your background

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or from superstitions 
you have or something,

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but here's the thing.

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There's a text in Titus

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that I often think about.

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It says, "To the pure, 
all things are pure."

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What does that mean?

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Think of something that 
could be seen as bad

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that for the Christian is actually pure.

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Can you think of anything

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that even Scripture itself speaks about?

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Eating meat offered to idols -

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to be even more specific.

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Okay, here's meat that's been offered

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to a pagan idol.

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And you can understand 
how a weak Christian

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could be affected negatively by that.

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But, here comes a strong Christian.

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You know what?

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God made that cow.

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I'm going to sit down.

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I'm going to eat that steak,

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and I'm going to praise the Lord.

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And basically Paul's saying - exactly.

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The pagan god it was 
offered to isn't even a god.

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He's nothing.

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There may be demons,

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but it's just nothing.

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You're free to do it.

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You see, to the pure,

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all things are pure.

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I think we need to apply to our lives.

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Now look,

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there are hand gestures

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that are considered crude and vulgar.

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Just about every society

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has some kind of gesture you do

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with your hands that is totally graphic

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and insulting.

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And so, can you think about any texts

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that talks about your 
behavior before the Gentiles?

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Keep it honorable.

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Look, as a Christian, 
if you're in a culture -

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and this is something you 
want to be sensitive of

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when you go to other cultures.

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If there's something that you can do,

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like our soldiers went over to Iraq

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in the beginning.

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And Muslim women 
would do this to them.

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Well, you know what our guys thought.

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They're happy we're here.

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Uh, you guys look that 
one up on the Internet.

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You'll find out that's not 
what they were saying to them.

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So, I mean, you know there's things

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that happen with the middle finger here.

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That immediately sends a signal.

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And if you as a Christian walk around

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saying, well, to the pure, 
all things are pure,

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you're not keeping your conduct

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exemplary before the Gentiles

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who are walking around doing that.

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We want to be sensitive 
to cultural propriety.

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And you know, I remember -

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anybody know Richard Bennett?

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Have you ever heard the name?

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He for years and years 
was a Catholic priest

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before he was converted.

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What I'm doing with my hand right now -

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have you ever seen priests

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do that with their hands?

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He became so accustomed to doing that

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that he had to undo it

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because it projected Catholicism,

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and he didn't want to do that.

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See, it had a meaning,

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and he was trying to distance himself

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from that meaning.

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If I do that in the pulpit,

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none of you are going to think anything.

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Now you might after today.

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I mean, things have meanings

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and so it's kind of like eating the meat

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offered to the idol.

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You know what? If I got saved

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out of that pagan religion,

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and I'd actually been down there

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in that temple with prostitutes.

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I had been there.

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And now somebody's telling me -

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I'm a Christian and somebody

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bought meat from there,

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and I used to eat that meat,

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and it brings back memories

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and it was done in devotion to that god

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and now somebody slaps that on there

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and tells me - it's kind 
of like Richard Bennett,

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and somebody holding 
their hands like that.

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That is associated with something

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from your background

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that you want to run from.

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Now to the guy that didn't 
come from that background,

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it's not that big a deal.

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For me to hold my hands like that

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is not that big a deal.

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It doesn't mean anything to me.

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It doesn't mean anything to you

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most likely.

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To him, it's very significant

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and he wants to distance himself.

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But see, it's all got to do with meaning.

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It's got to do with the meaning

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that an individual believes it has

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or the meaning that a culture

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might project to something.

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So, I guess we would just 
need to be sensitive there.

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But the reality is,

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our hands are our hands.

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And to do some certain thing with them

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doesn't carry these mysterious signs

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if I don't mean them to.

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Just because my hand happens to

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go a certain way, doesn't mean you should

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read all sorts of 
mysterious signs into it.

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That's crazy.

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Any other thoughts on that one?

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James: So for you, would there be

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any application, or meaning,

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is there a place to 
try to untrain yourself

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from doing any hand signs

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in view of a lot of people in the culture

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taking it a certain way,

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just like the Richard Bennett thing?

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I'm just asking the question.

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Tim: See, the thing is,

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even though I come from a background

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where I was involved in heavy metal

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and rock music, I never did that.

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So, it's not like my hands 
are used to doing that

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because I used to do that.

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It's not that.

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Here's the thing, if when I preach,

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something I do is a stumbling block,

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I would rather not do it.

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My problem is I don't know when I do that.

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I know when I have my pen out.

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Sometimes that's even subconscious,

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but I've watched myself

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and I think my wife said,

201
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"Oh, I can hear you clicking your pen."

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Something has happened

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and it's like, okay, 
don't bring my pen out

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because that distracts people.

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Or one time when I was first preaching,

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I would bang my ring against the pulpit.

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Kyle told me, "You know 
you bang your ring...?"

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Okay. I'm going to stop doing that

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because that distracts people.

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I didn't know it came up as much 
as you're saying it came up.

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So, if I could actually think about it,

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I'd stop doing it.

213
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But I don't know I'm doing it.

214
00:10:01,862 --> 00:10:09,150
And it's not like pulling 
a pen out of my pocket.

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I can't even imagine myself ever doing it.

216
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It's all subconscious,

217
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so I don't know how I could 
stop myself from doing it,

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when I don't even know that I do it.

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James: Because you 
could say hypothetically

220
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that a new believer -

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they may hear a sermon 
of yours and be helped,

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and while they're YouTubing your name,

223
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they run into these videos

224
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saying you're in the Illuminati.

225
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They could actually believe that

226
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being naive, you know?

227
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They've just gotten saved.

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Tim: Do you guys notice me doing that

229
00:10:42,707 --> 00:10:43,902
from the pulpit?

230
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(from the room) I do, only 
because I know it's an issue.

231
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We've gotten many emails over the years.

232
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I hear you, unless you 
tape your fingers together

233
00:11:01,050 --> 00:11:06,938
for a while so you couldn't...

234
00:11:06,938 --> 00:11:10,761
Wear mittens.

235
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That would be a bigger stumbling block.

236
00:11:12,695 --> 00:11:14,392
Tim: Right. More people would say,

237
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"why is he wearing mittens?"

238
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Summer in Texas -

239
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you hardly want to wear 
mittens in the pulpit.

240
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Anyway, there is a place

241
00:11:31,825 --> 00:11:33,906
not to put a stumbling block.

242
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You don't want to put a stumbling block

243
00:11:36,187 --> 00:11:38,125
in the way of people hearing the truth.

244
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So, it wouldn't be like,

245
00:11:39,313 --> 00:11:41,034
oh, people just need to get over it.

246
00:11:41,034 --> 00:11:42,630
No, it really is a kind of thing

247
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where if a preacher is doing something

248
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that is distracting,

249
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he really should stop doing it.

250
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But as far as is there meaning in it,

251
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well, there I would say,

252
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"to the pure, all things are pure."

253
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(incomplete thought)

254
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Whatever hand gestures we do,

255
00:12:00,886 --> 00:12:07,639
if it's not violating some 
kind of cultural standard

256
00:12:07,639 --> 00:12:10,261
which I just don't know about that one.

257
00:12:10,261 --> 00:12:11,754
Obviously, the middle finger

258
00:12:11,754 --> 00:12:14,948
is pretty graphic in this [culture].

259
00:12:14,948 --> 00:12:16,958
In other cultures, like in Iraq,

260
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that's bad.

261
00:12:21,094 --> 00:12:22,405
You get different things.

262
00:12:22,405 --> 00:12:24,331
Showing somebody the bottom of your foot

263
00:12:24,331 --> 00:12:26,356
in some of those cultures is really bad.

264
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We don't even think about it here.

265
00:12:28,009 --> 00:12:29,923
But you want to be culturally sensitive.

266
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There's no question about it.

267
00:12:32,873 --> 00:12:35,354
But no, I'm not sending forth any sign.

268
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It doesn't even register.

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Okay.

270
00:12:47,462 --> 00:12:51,268
Any other last thoughts?

271
00:12:51,268 --> 00:12:52,202
(from the room)

272
00:12:52,202 --> 00:12:54,512
I guess getting back to her question,

273
00:12:54,512 --> 00:13:02,739
is there anything 
that's being communicated

274
00:13:02,739 --> 00:13:04,921
from that group of people to another?

275
00:13:04,921 --> 00:13:09,559
Or is there any sign that's 
trying to be communicated

276
00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:11,242
from that group of people?

277
00:13:11,242 --> 00:13:13,215
Something along that line?

278
00:13:13,215 --> 00:13:15,633
Tim: "Is the whole hand signal/gestures

279
00:13:15,633 --> 00:13:17,879
really just something stupid?"

280
00:13:17,879 --> 00:13:21,804
Or, isn't it? Should 
it be taken seriously?

281
00:13:21,804 --> 00:13:23,039
(from the room)

282
00:13:23,039 --> 00:13:26,447
We understand that 
there are satanic groups.

283
00:13:26,447 --> 00:13:29,497
(unintelligible)

284
00:13:29,497 --> 00:13:32,711
Tim: Well, a lot of it has to do with 
what you're communicating.

285
00:13:32,711 --> 00:13:33,447
(from the room)

286
00:13:33,447 --> 00:13:35,033
Are they trying to communicate

287
00:13:35,033 --> 00:13:36,507
something to each other?

288
00:13:36,507 --> 00:13:38,212
Tim: There's a lot of hand signals

289
00:13:38,212 --> 00:13:40,084
where people are definitely trying -

290
00:13:40,084 --> 00:13:41,404
using the middle finger,

291
00:13:41,404 --> 00:13:45,889
you're trying to communicate 
something to somebody.

292
00:13:45,889 --> 00:13:48,230
I guess that's the kind of thing -

293
00:13:48,230 --> 00:13:51,598
what is it that something communicates?

294
00:13:51,598 --> 00:13:55,139
And because whatever 
I'm doing with my hand

295
00:13:55,139 --> 00:13:57,919
does communicate 
something to enough people

296
00:13:57,919 --> 00:13:59,912
that they're actually wondering,

297
00:13:59,912 --> 00:14:02,264
it would be best if I didn't do it.

298
00:14:02,264 --> 00:14:05,209
It's not like, oh, I've 
got Christian freedom.

299
00:14:05,209 --> 00:14:07,719
It'd be best just to not do it.

300
00:14:07,719 --> 00:14:09,814
I can't say I'm going to walk away today

301
00:14:09,814 --> 00:14:10,957
and never do it again,

302
00:14:10,957 --> 00:14:12,795
because I don't know I'm doing it.

303
00:14:12,795 --> 00:14:13,699
(from the room)

304
00:14:13,699 --> 00:14:15,490
People have a habit of judging people

305
00:14:15,490 --> 00:14:17,970
by the external.

306
00:14:17,970 --> 00:14:20,219
And that's what the satanic group

307
00:14:20,219 --> 00:14:21,766
is trying to communicate,

308
00:14:21,766 --> 00:14:25,061
and that's what can 
be often misinterpreted.

309
00:14:25,061 --> 00:14:27,688
But if the question is like 
is all the stuff on YouTube

310
00:14:27,688 --> 00:14:29,826
regarding signals and Illuminati stupid?

311
00:14:29,826 --> 00:14:31,227
The answer is yes.

312
00:14:31,227 --> 00:14:35,196
Tim: Oh, there's a lot of stupidity in it.

313
00:14:35,196 --> 00:14:37,282
There's a lot of people 
reading into things

314
00:14:37,282 --> 00:14:39,050
that are not meant.

315
00:14:39,050 --> 00:14:45,648
(unintelligible)

316
00:14:45,648 --> 00:14:49,306
It's not like some craving in myself

317
00:14:49,306 --> 00:14:51,419
to go back to my rock and roll days.

318
00:14:51,419 --> 00:14:53,236
It's not that at all.

319
00:14:53,236 --> 00:14:55,004
That's never crossed my mind.

320
00:14:55,004 --> 00:15:00,064
And I'm not any big UT fan either.

321
00:15:00,064 --> 00:15:01,634
I'm a Michigan fan

322
00:15:01,634 --> 00:15:09,208
and I don't know that they have a sign.

323
00:15:09,208 --> 00:15:10,799
Okay.